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Building two Identical 3-string CBGs at once...... Both have the same buzzing problem....... ARGGGGGGGGGG!

I am in the process of building two identical guitars at the same time (3-stringers and FRETLESS). I figured at least one would turn out for me. Actually both of them being identical look decent and the process went pretty good. I am now at the stage of stringing and tuning them. They both have the same problem and that is that they both strum nice and clean at the open chord but when I fret anywhere on the fretboard they buzz horribly (a twangy buzz not a rattle). NOT A LITTLE... A LOT. I do play the guitar so I know a little about where to look for buzzes. This buzz is huge. The three tuners are new and tight. None of the strings are anywhere close to the fretboard anywhere. I can raise the nut and the saddle so high that I can't play it and it still buzzes when I fret. My novice thinking is that the buzzing must have to do with the box itself. I purchased both boxes from a hobby store and they feel really solid but have the usually two clasps and two hinges on the opposite side. On each corner of the box is an ornamental piece of thin metal that is tacked down. I originally thought that they might be rattling but when I lacquered the final finish I pretty much cemented them down so they aren't moving.. I don't think. The other area that I thought might be making the buzzing is that I glued a 1/4" strip of red cedar (fretboard) onto the neck which is 1" x 2" red cedar and that all seems fine but I cut the 1/4" fretboard right at the junction of the body and the neck. In other words, the fretboard does not overlap onto the body. I don't know if this gap area could cause buzzing..... So a long story short.... Does extreme buzzing at every fret sound like a common mistake in building a CBG that a beginner like myself would make? Bad boxes? Maybe fretless CBGs buzz all the time?? Tried tons of strings of all different sizes and gauges. Tried all different nut and saddle heights. It plays fantastic at open chord.... just don't fret it or it buzzes.... It's a twangy buzz, if that means anything

Any common mistakes that new builders run into when they build their first one (or two) that usually creates lots of buzzing? Any thoughts good or bad appreciate. Looks like I might some good firewood for this upcoming winter

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Permalink Reply by molinee on May 25, 2011 at 11:44am

Hey Matt.... Explain the following a little clearer for me. Please clarify: (neck angled back from body)???

Artist Formerly Known as Matt said:

One more thought. Measure string height at the nut and at the box end of the fretboard .....you could have negative relief causing the problem. ( neck angled back from the body)

AFKAM

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Permalink Reply by molinee on May 25, 2011 at 12:01pm

E D brought up a point that may shed light on this problem. It had to do with the fretboard/box pocket connection.

Maybe something here.... My 1 x 2 red oak neck goes all the way thru the body and out the end a couple of inches. So far so good. The neck is glued tightly to the lid. Also good.....So far all is good. But then I glued a 1/4" thick piece of red oak to act as the fretboard on top of the 1 x 2 neck which I think is probably OK........ BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE FRETBOARD ACTUALLY TOUCHES THE BOX ITSELF. It is solidly glued to the neck but doesn't touch the box itself..........Could this be creating some kind of sound wave problem??? Or should it still work?

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Permalink Reply by Bill Alvey on May 25, 2011 at 1:45pm

Check were Your neck meets the box, with Your neck sitting up a little bit, strings maybe hitting right there !! Good luck !!

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on May 25, 2011 at 2:23pm

Without strings, lay a straight edge on the box ( not on fretboard) so that it runs along beside of the neck. The neck shoucld do 1 of 2 things.

1- match the straight edge. ( best - IMHO) or...

2- the nut end should be slightly higher than the box. Actually slanted up.This is relief. ( not exactly, but for our purposes it is - no flaming please)

IF the nut end is lower than the top of the box ( slanted down ) this is a bad thing.

AFKAM

btw- none of my fretboards touch the box ....NOT a problem.

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on May 25, 2011 at 2:27pm

What does the neck look like where it runs under the box top?

Notched for the soundboard? Flat ? what?

Matt

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on May 25, 2011 at 2:42pm

Here's what I mean. See how the neck is slanted below the box? It shouldn't be. It should be even or slanted up slightly.

You can see where the red string is closer to the fretboard at the box /neck junction. Guaranteed to buzz IF this is the problem.

AFKAM

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Permalink Reply by molinee on May 25, 2011 at 5:26pm

I just checked both of the gits and the neck is indeed straight as an arrow or at the worse is just barely barely slightly up... Basically flat. Thanks for taking time with your drawing and all... very nice gesture.

Artist Formerly Known as Matt said:

Here's what I mean. See how the neck is slanted below the box? It shouldn't be. It should be even or slanted up slightly.

You can see where the red string is closer to the fretboard at the box /neck junction. Guaranteed to buzz IF this is the problem.

AFKAM

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Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on May 25, 2011 at 5:34pm

I have to ask, how do you know that your fretboard is flat? Did you "deck" it. I used to think that you could eyeball a piece of wood or trust factory prepared wood, but I had a Bass CBG that behave the way you describe. Now I aways used a leveling table to make sure the fret/fingerboard is perfectly level. I now never have to dress frets for buzzing and fretless instruments always behave...

the best,

Wichita Sam

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on May 26, 2011 at 12:52am

This may seem off the wall, but do you have access to a stethoscope? That might help narrow down the source of the buzzing.

Have you tried different strings yet?

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on May 26, 2011 at 1:36am

I only build frettless and have also had this problem. Wichita Sam and a few others are right, its the fret board/neck. It has to be FLAT!!! I had a few that buzzed up near the nut but not so bad down the neck and some even worse. I now level them all the way Sam describes and have had no problem since, I even fixed the bad ones. You can check the flatness with a good straight edge but you still may miss a slight dip or rise. Try leveling one of your necks and re-string it you will be happy with the results.

To level it take a long strip of sand paper, or cut a belt sander belt into a strip. Tape or glue it to a perfectly flat surface and run your neck back and forth till its flat.

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on May 26, 2011 at 1:40am

Just want to add, buzzing is the string hitting the neck and vibrating, loose stuff or box problems would be more of a vibrating rattle, I've had those too. The high neck and box joint is fine, no sonic turbulence there. If it only does it when fretted its the strings buzzing because of a neck problem.

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Permalink Reply by Mark on May 26, 2011 at 1:50am

The fact that you don't get the buzz with the open strings seems to rule out problems with the way the strings sit across the nut or bridge/saddles. Also that seems to suggest it's not a case of some piece of hardware being loose or the neck and body being badly joined. From the discussions above it sounds like neck alignment is OK. And I have to say your guitar looks fine (I know that isn't a guarantee but it does say something) . So I don't think there's anything majorly wrong or incurable.

If I had to guess I would say that maybe its a problem with your technique - combined perhaps with a non-optimum combination of strings and tuning. Have you played fretless instruments before? If not then it might just be that you're not used to the "fretting" technique - in which case practice should fix it. Also, for any given combination of string gauge and scale length, there will be an optimum range within which the string should be tuned. Try to tune above that range and the string breaks, tune below it and the string's too slack and sounds bad and sometimes buzzes. You say you've tried a range of strings so maybe you've ruled this out, but you don't say what tuning you're using or what's the scale length of your guitar so it's difficult to know.