Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bluesdog on January 18, 2010 at 6:42am

In their rawest simpelest form (3 string, drawn fret's, unamplified with a necktrough and a straight headstock. Nothing fancy) i ask 30-35 euro's. (is about 50$ with the current exchange rait) But they are all made with new string's tunners and new bought wood so that's mostley cost plus 10 euro's for me. Don't sell as much as i would like though

I do use recycled matirials other than the cigarboxes on occasion if i can find some, sometimes just buying is easier and saves a lot of time searching.

Fancier custom builds for friends or just people i know i sell using a simple filosofy, i make the guitar, let them know the exact material costs and roughly the amount of hour's i spend on it, hand it over to them so they can play it for a week to figure out what the guitar plus amount of workhour's spent are worth to them and pay me half of that (appart from the material costs offcourse).

If i get payed enough i'm happy, if i think the pay is insufficiant i wouldn't say a word about it but it's the last Cbg i ever made for that particular customer. Never had to "exile" a customer to this very day

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Permalink Reply by Greg on January 18, 2010 at 7:35am

. Never had to "exile" a customer to this very day
I'll have to remember that one

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Permalink Reply by Jerryrig240 on January 18, 2010 at 8:06am

Friends of mine tell me I should sell mine, I would like to some day, but not for much.,.....I'm not greedy and they are not worth a real 6 string at times. I just tell all my friends I am trying to perfect my craft, and maybe one day I will sell one. But with that said, I put a lot of heart into what I make and it gets hard to think about selling some of my cbgs. I only have a hand full made, but one day (and I am sure soon) I will have a huge pile of them in the corner and need to think the herd. People buying stuff at crazy prices? Some have so much money they don't know what to do with it, and some of those same people could not nail two peices of wood together to save their lives. Some times, and this I think comes with a lot of ebay stuff, people don't really care how much they pay, even if they could make it for half the price or nothing at all, they just want it, and they know they can't make it. There are very many that are not crafty enough and just want a cbg and find one they like, and cha ching, they buy it,

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Permalink Reply by Ronnie Retherford on January 18, 2010 at 11:36am

The four string fretted ones I have built and sold went for $180.00. I used a higher quality on the tuning mechanisms on these since they were contract builds. My 3 string non-fretted will go for around $80.00. One thing that helps also is to give a little of the profit to the wife all along. lol
Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 18, 2010 at 2:37pm

CBG not worth a "real 6 string"? .... Think about it this way ... a cookie cutter squire strat for $125 might well be worth less than a unique CBG, especially if you're trying to get a delta blues slide vibe..... Again, the market establishes the value, and for some buyers, having something that no one else has, is worth a lot of premium....

As your craft improves, I think you might will come to the conclusion that your CBGs deserve higher prices... sure you can discount them for friends or even give them away (I do both) but that doesn't mean they're not worth more....

the best,

Wichita Sam

Jerryrig240 said:

Friends of mine tell me I should sell mine, I would like to some day, but not for much.,.....I'm not greedy and they are not worth a real 6 string at times. I just tell all my friends I am trying to perfect my craft, and maybe one day I will sell one. But with that said, I put a lot of heart into what I make and it gets hard to think about selling some of my cbgs. I only have a hand full made, but one day (and I am sure soon) I will have a huge pile of them in the corner and need to think the herd. People buying stuff at crazy prices? Some have so much money they don't know what to do with it, and some of those same people could not nail two peices of wood together to save their lives. Some times, and this I think comes with a lot of ebay stuff, people don't really care how much they pay, even if they could make it for half the price or nothing at all, they just want it, and they know they can't make it. There are very many that are not crafty enough and just want a cbg and find one they like, and cha ching, they buy it,

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 19, 2010 at 12:50pm

Charge what the instrument is worth. If you can build a studio quality instrument, the prices should reflect that. If your niche is the more traditional rickety crate guitar (not being disparaging - it's a legitimate sub group of the artform) then the prices should reflect that as well. But don't build a fretless three string with a Radio Shack piezo and try to charge $300 for an "Electric Dobro Tone Monster". You may be able to hook one or two people with that but that's only because you got lucky. In most cases, you'll blow your credibility. Most musicians research the hell out of these before they buy them just because they're trying to determine if they are actually playable instruments and not some ridiculous gimmick, so they're going to know what goes into the construction. You can't slap a huge price tag on something and invoke the magic phrase (Mojo) and expect the masses to come running.

When I started selling my guitars, I did so at a loss. A large part of that was because I was totally unknown and people didn't know if they wanted to gamble on the new guy. Also, my skills at the time didn't command a very high price. Now, I typically keep it to about 100% profit. My six string guitars sell between $550 and $650 and they're worth every penny (probably more). The only reason I can do that is because my skills as a guitar maker have progressed to a point where it is reasonable to charge this much, not to mention the fact that I use some very high end hardware and electronics in my nicer guitars. I used to do things like buy premade six string necks, mostly because I wasn't comfortable relying on my skill alone to carve my own. Now, at this point, I refuse to use them because I can't stand to put my name on anything that came out of a CNC mill. I either drop in the rod and carve it myself or not at all.

Given the amount of time I spend working on each guitar (up to a few months sometimes), I'm sure I'm still not charging enough. Honestly, though, I'm not doing this for money. No matter what happens, I have to build guitars. If I didn't sell them, I'd put myself in the poor house.

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Permalink Reply by Roger Martin on January 22, 2010 at 5:38am

Like Sam said earlier,the market itself decides what your product is worth.Our market here ( and its even more important now with the economy imploded) is very tough to gauge.So I base it here on keeping IMPULSE buy to under $100.At that price here in TENN, say $77.95 with tax it goes to about $85.55 before they get their purchase out the door.(Remember I'm trying to stay under that magic $100 number)
To do that I build sort of factory style. In that on a session I just build a slew of necks.While the necks are drying I get the boxes ready,( all my boxes are beefed up slightly .I'm aware that beefing up can kill some sound, but I strongly feel that its worth losing a bit in order to make the instrument tougher.Most of my sales are to people that never heard of a CBG or a DB.Their Simply walking into a tourist MAll and hearing an instrument for the 1st time and decide they want one, ( with a little help from me)
Because its an item they never heard of you'd be amazed at the questions I get concerning a box thats not perfect.They want a perfect box that appears like its never been used for cigars and looks perfect.
The numbers that I build to keep enough stock means that there's no way I can always have perfect boxes on hand.SO I have to do a song and dance to explain the history aspect of the instrument to counter their idea that its a professional made instrument that looks perfect.((((A lot of times they ask about the guarantee.))))
I really dont know how much time I spend on each one because I've never built just 1 instrument.If I had to guess how it breaks down I'd say,not counting drying time ,maybe an hour per piece, maybe,,,,,
With that build time in mind my prices AVERAGE about $77.95 for a simple 3 string CBG, depending on the price I PAID for the box itself and its desirability on its own etc.No frets, just drawn on.Its the reason I ONLY build sliders.
There is NO market here for fretted ( cost based on time ) unless your willing to give your time away,, and I'm not.
I try not to build CBG's that just look good hanging on the wall of the shop. In retail you have to pay rent on that section the CBG is hanging on, you cant afford to waste too much space on instruments that look good but dont sell.Its just the way retail is.
If you want a quick lesson on retail, say, you know how much that square yard of space costs you each month to rent,now multiply that by 12 months and you know how much you wasted on that space that didnt make you a dime.
Retail can be fun sometimes but it has some rules that you have to go by , if you want to make money.
I do love building these things, but not enough to lose money in the process.

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Permalink Reply by O-DAD on January 23, 2010 at 11:10am

that is about the range that i have been selling for,60-75 for moderate builds and 125-150 for ones that i put alot more into,i feel satisfied with that-i have given alot away to family and friends and they have brought back paying customers ,so i guess you could call that advertising-thanks for the feed back

Wes Yates said:

Don't expect a lot. I would say a good [read: good] build will go for about $60 - $150 depending on the market, and where/how you sell. John McNair [RedDog Guitars], and I mean absolutely no offense here, makes boxes that are really expensive to me, but he does make great boxes and he sells them which is all good. He also has a great reputation and can market the crap out of them. I can even tell when I hear one of his being played, so he has a sound quality that adds.

I dunno what John Lowe sell his for but he has a great reputation, following, and quite a unique instrument so his would also be higher priced.

- WY

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Permalink Reply by O-DAD on January 23, 2010 at 11:14am

where in tennessee are you,i am also from tennessee,most of the ones that i have sold were for 75 and i have sold a few for over a hundred,but they were ones i really put my heart and soul into.thanks for the feed back

Roger Martin said:

Like Sam said earlier,the market itself decides what your product is worth.Our market here ( and its even more important now with the economy imploded) is very tough to gauge.So I base it here on keeping IMPULSE buy to under $100.At that price here in TENN, say $77.95 with tax it goes to about $85.55 before they get their purchase out the door.(Remember I'm trying to stay under that magic $100 number)
To do that I build sort of factory style. In that on a session I just build a slew of necks.While the necks are drying I get the boxes ready,( all my boxes are beefed up slightly .I'm aware that beefing up can kill some sound, but I strongly feel that its worth losing a bit in order to make the instrument tougher.Most of my sales are to people that never heard of a CBG or a DB.Their Simply walking into a tourist MAll and hearing an instrument for the 1st time and decide they want one, ( with a little help from me)
Because its an item they never heard of you'd be amazed at the questions I get concerning a box thats not perfect.They want a perfect box that appears like its never been used for cigars and looks perfect.
The numbers that I build to keep enough stock means that there's no way I can always have perfect boxes on hand.SO I have to do a song and dance to explain the history aspect of the instrument to counter their idea that its a professional made instrument that looks perfect.((((A lot of times they ask about the guarantee.))))
I really dont know how much time I spend on each one because I've never built just 1 instrument.If I had to guess how it breaks down I'd say,not counting drying time ,maybe an hour per piece, maybe,,,,,
With that build time in mind my prices AVERAGE about $77.95 for a simple 3 string CBG, depending on the price I PAID for the box itself and its desirability on its own etc.No frets, just drawn on.Its the reason I ONLY build sliders.
There is NO market here for fretted ( cost based on time ) unless your willing to give your time away,, and I'm not.
I try not to build CBG's that just look good hanging on the wall of the shop. In retail you have to pay rent on that section the CBG is hanging on, you cant afford to waste too much space on instruments that look good but dont sell.Its just the way retail is.
If you want a quick lesson on retail, say, you know how much that square yard of space costs you each month to rent,now multiply that by 12 months and you know how much you wasted on that space that didnt make you a dime.
Retail can be fun sometimes but it has some rules that you have to go by , if you want to make money.
I do love building these things, but not enough to lose money in the process.

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Permalink Reply by L.J. on January 23, 2010 at 5:24pm

I find it hard to make any money at this. Im happy if im buying a tool every now and then. But when it comes to time spent.I dont think any of us are making fair money. I go on ebay and see fretted 3 and 4 strings going for 60 and 75 bucks. That was a real eye opener back when I thought I might be able to make money at this. People that I sell too hear this every time. "You can go on Ebay and beat my price,But Ill sell you this one If you like"I have probably sold 50 now. I mainly do it because I love it. And it brings people Joy. As long as the hobby/addiction is paying for itself Im ok. I ask 100.00 for a fretless 3 string acoustic. It takes me about 12 hours to build one.So I figure I aint makin much , esspecially after expenses.And people pay it. I can hardly keep any inventory.I am building 3 or 4 at a time now to try and speed production a bit. Thats helping me alot on my time spent. And the addition of a tool here and there is a nice way to trim the hours and improve the builds.Just ask what you feel is fair. whats going to keep you happy after the point of sale. Ask whats going to keep you building more. If you feel like your spinning your wheels you might view them differently.
When I came up with the 100 dollar price. I sat down with a piece of paper in my shop. I wrote down a mark for every tool setup, and a mark for every point of labor on a standard build(3string fretless)not counting the oops factor. counting coats of poly,sanding,holes drilled, everything involved from start to finish. I came up with over 30 tool setups and over 100 points of labor.(youre builds may be more or less) then I thought about my costs at home depot and lowes for Glue,blades,tools,etc and my money for wood at the lumber yard,boxes,strings and tuners. My prices seemed more than fair after doing that. Probably not fair to me. Haaaa!

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Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 24, 2010 at 2:45am

LJ,

Anyone who wants "to make money" at building CBGs will have a tough go. You can either setup for mass production (like Roger) where you have an acceptable margin at $80 per, or you go for the high end limited custom builds where you can truly justify $ 300+ per. Other that this, I think most of us are hobby/crafters.

Craft building is almost always a "give the labor away" proposition. If you have better options, or if you don't love what you're doing so much so that all you want back is cost and "a new tool now and then", you won't be building long.

But, there is a way to beat the Ebay prices (remember Ebay ought to be considered wholesale or at most Dollar General pricing). The way to make each CBG price higher is to learn to play as good as you possibly can. What you have over Ebay is you can demo the CBG you're showing and the customer can have it in their hands before the sale. When I buy anything from Ebay, I have to get it at least % 20 under what I can get it in person (shipping included) or I won't touch it...I factor in an "Oh, heck, this isn't as good as I thought" factor.

If you hang in long enough, and you love building and you get good at your craft and you learn to play good and you are a smart marketer, you can make money at building CBGs.... How much depends on you...

the best,

Wichita Sam

L.J. said:

I find it hard to make any money at this. Im happy if im buying a tool every now and then. But when it comes to time spent.I dont think any of us are making fair money. I go on ebay and see fretted 3 and 4 strings going for 60 and 75 bucks. That was a real eye opener back when I thought I might be able to make money at this. People that I sell too hear this every time. "You can go on Ebay and beat my price,But Ill sell you this one If you like"I have probably sold 50 now. I mainly do it because I love it. And it brings people Joy. As long as the hobby/addiction is paying for itself Im ok. I ask 100.00 for a fretless 3 string acoustic. It takes me about 12 hours to build one.So I figure I aint makin much , esspecially after expenses.And people pay it. I can hardly keep any inventory.I am building 3 or 4 at a time now to try and speed production a bit. Thats helping me alot on my time spent. And the addition of a tool here and there is a nice way to trim the hours and improve the builds.Just ask what you feel is fair. whats going to keep you happy after the point of sale. Ask whats going to keep you building more. If you feel like your spinning your wheels you might view them differently.
When I came up with the 100 dollar price. I sat down with a piece of paper in my shop. I wrote down a mark for every tool setup, and a mark for every point of labor on a standard build(3string fretless)not counting the oops factor. counting coats of poly,sanding,holes drilled, everything involved from start to finish. I came up with over 30 tool setups and over 100 points of labor.(youre builds may be more or less) then I thought about my costs at home depot and lowes for Glue,blades,tools,etc and my money for wood at the lumber yard,boxes,strings and tuners. My prices seemed more than fair after doing that. Probably not fair to me. Haaaa!

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Permalink Reply by Nathan King on January 24, 2010 at 5:23am

The easiest way to make a small fortune in (cigar box) guitar building is to start with a large fortune.

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