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Newbie questions reg. tuning for a 4 string

I finished up my first CBG this weekend (only took 3 months of on-and-off work!). I definitely made some rookie mistakes, including with the box, so switched to another cigar box mid-build. Luckily that was before I notched the neck so it all worked out okay. I built a 4-stringer from a kit that I got from Back Porch Mojo.

I have strung it, but am not sure about tuning. Seems like 3-string is a lot more common. The strings that came in my kit are .013, .017, .026, and .035. I started out tuning it like a 6-string, E A D G, and then have tried a couple tunings I found in the forums, like D F# A D. One question, does this notation mean the top (thickest) string is D, then next thickest is F#, or the other way around?

I have noticed quite a bit of buzz when fretting on the nut-side of the neck, so suspect that I may have notched the nut a bit too much and the action is too low. I tried raising the bridge a bit and that didn't help a whole lot, so expect I need to re-do the notches on the nut.

I put some pictures of it up on my page, I am pretty happy with how it turned out, other than I mounted the tuners too close to the nut, so I had to wind the outside strings the opposite direction or they wouldn't stay in the nut-groove, plus two of the screws that hold the tuners are not in the best location. At least I know a bit more what to do when I build my next one ! :)

Any thoughts are welcome, especially on tuning.
Thanks,
Eric

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Permalink Reply by Mungo Park on March 7, 2010 at 12:50pm

Reas this:
http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/what-strings-to-use-1

When you hold the guitar to play the top string is the thinnest and is the D.
The strings have to be much the same height all along the fret board or they will not sound right when you play. It was described as the strings should be the height to just slip a quater under them. When you press on the strings they strech a hair changing the sound slighty.
You want to search intonation:
http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/intonation.htm
This will help you to get it set up right.
Can you remove the nut, or glue a strip on top of it and sand it down to the right height.
I am a nubie as well so maybe the big guns could comment on this stuff.
Also check with something flat if all the frets are the same height, maybe one is a little high and is causing the problem.
Cheers Ron

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Permalink Reply by John Drake on March 7, 2010 at 1:56pm

Hi Mungo,
You must be holding your guitar up-side-down to have the thinnest string at the top!. Like all guitars the CBG has the thickest string at the top (nearest your head) and the thinnest at the bottom or closest to the floor. I am also looking for a good 4 string tuning and have decided on Dgbd (Key of G) which uses the Dgbe strings of a standard guitar. Have a look at Keni Lee Burgess videos - particularly the video of Little Red Rooster which you can find here. Regards John D

Mungo Park said:

Reas this:
http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/what-strings-to-use-1 When you hold the guitar to play the top string is the thinnest and is the D.
The strings have to be much the same height all along the fret board or they will not sound right when you play. It was described as the strings should be the height to just slip a quater under them. When you press on the strings they strech a hair changing the sound slighty.
You want to search intonation:
http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/intonation.htm
This will help you to get it set up right.
Can you remove the nut, or glue a strip on top of it and sand it down to the right height.
I am a nubie as well so maybe the big guns could comment on this stuff.
Also check with something flat if all the frets are the same height, maybe one is a little high and is causing the problem.
Cheers Ron

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Permalink Reply by Mungo Park on March 7, 2010 at 2:04pm

You beat me, I was just going back to correct myself, as I got it backward, part of the egg on the face nubie world.
Thanks for pointing this out John. Cheers Ron.

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Permalink Reply by Andy Estabrooks on March 7, 2010 at 4:46pm

Top vs bottom nomenclature always seems to be a point of confusion. I've always understood that the "top" string is the high string and the bottom string is the low pitch string (the reference is to pitch not position). Likewise you would refer to the first fret being at the "bottom" of the neck.
For tuning , like John, I like Dgbd when playing with a slide. I also like Baritone Uke tuning (Dgbe) which is the same as the "top" strings of a standard tuned 6 string for chord playing. Since I'm not an advanced player,I find this easy since I'm accustomed to playing standard tuning.

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Permalink Reply by Dave Onastik on March 7, 2010 at 5:39pm

Somebody on another thread pointed out this link:

http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.htm

I used it the other day to select strings for my second build. I wanted to tune G D G b, and I was able to buy the strings from a local guitar store at exactly the guages I wanted. This made a big difference in the playability of my guitar, as the string tension is perfect for the tuning I chose.

So basically, have a good idea of what tuning you want first, then using your scale length (nut to bridge), use this tool to determine the best string combo. I'll be using this with every build from now on.

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Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on March 7, 2010 at 6:29pm

if you want low sound open D use 6-5-4-3 from a 6 string set (D-A-D-F#)
if you want a hight sound open D use 4-3-2-1 from a set (D-F#-a-d)
if you want to play open G use 5-4-3-2 from a set (G-D-g-b) good all around for playing singing

not comprehensive but a good place to start

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on March 8, 2010 at 8:14am

Please check out my video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLGnnF-TIbY

Enjoy.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Johnson on March 9, 2010 at 5:38am

Thanks everyone for the advice and such. I tuned it up for Dgbd, and though I still have some work to do to get the intonation correct, it sounds pretty good. The issue with the strings buzzing when fretting near the nut appears to be gone, I suspect I was tuned too low, not enough tension in the strings. Are you supposed to be able to slide a quarter between the strings and the neck, or between the strings and the frets? I can slide a quarter between the strings and the neck, so I'm hoping that is correct and that my nut height is okay.

Without a truss rod, is stress on the neck likely to be a problem? I remember reading somewhere that it can be gentler on your CBG to tune down rather than up because of this. When I was tuning to Dgbd, heard lots of little "pings" and such, may just have been the strings getting tight around the tuning pegs?

I'll have to give DF#ad a try as well, since I have the 4-3-2-1 strings on it. Watched Keni's video, and will be attempting to play that soon.

This is fun stuff!

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Permalink Reply by Raymond L on March 9, 2010 at 3:46pm

Eric,
I have my 4 string tuned from the top (thickest string) down to the bottom ( thinnest string).
E, B, E G#
This is an open E tunning.
This tuning is good for "power" cords, E,A,D, strum an open E (1), slide down to A (4), slide down to D (5).
With the 1,4,5 combination and mixing them up....you can play hundreds of songs.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Johnson on March 13, 2010 at 11:13am

Well, I just (rather foolishly I guess) tried to tune to EBEG#, and the 2nd fattest string (.026) snapped. Argh. Guess I will head to the music store in the next day or so. Not sure exactly what to buy, will check out the String Gauge Calculator website first. Any particular brands that are recommended? Note, I have a Guitar Center nearby, so will probably be shopping there.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Latham on March 13, 2010 at 11:41am

Don't feel bad about breaking strings. I have broken my share for sure. The missis was beginning to wander about my new guitar. I'm just learning guitar stuff and have not figured it out myself. I will say this string of discussion has simplified or at leat started to bring the string/tuning thing together myself. Thanks all for simpelifying it!

I bought the "Dean Markley Lite Guage" at the Guitar Center, only $2.47 at the time. I think I have been going to high on the strings and this board cleared up a lot. Thanks again.

Eric Johnson said:

Well, I just (rather foolishly I guess) tried to tune to EBEG#, and the 2nd fattest string (.026) snapped. Argh. Guess I will head to the music store in the next day or so. Not sure exactly what to buy, will check out the String Gauge Calculator website first. Any particular brands that are recommended? Note, I have a Guitar Center nearby, so will probably be shopping there.