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Best Boxes For Great Sound

Just wondering what your experiences have been with the type and size of boxes that seem to create the best CBG sound?? As a guy who is planning on building several of these things, it would be interesting to hear your feedback.

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Permalink Reply by rockcity on October 30, 2009 at 1:59am

Ahhh wise words of wisdom from a drunken Shane.. Amen to that..

Shane Speal said:

Cigar boxes do not sound great. They sound like crap. Total crap. They're the last resort in the world of musical instruments. Yet we love them. Why? We want something primal. Something deeper than the Delta blues. We want an instrument that will kick our ass when we try to play it.

...Yeah, I'm drunk, but I thought I'd add a dose of perspective. Make a CBG today. Make it from whatever ya go. Then learn to play the damn thing as-is. I guarantee the music you get will be more liberating than any textbook blues song out there.

Shane Speal

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on October 30, 2009 at 2:50am

Certainly you can use either side. I happen to make a "sound recess" of about 1/8" on the neck so the lid can resonate/vibrate more. Makes a world of difference. I have also seen the neck-to-bottom design which works out really well. My Cohiba is not acoustic so I didn't need the lid to resonate but I did attach the neck to the bottom of the box. The lid, though secured, it still free to come off if needed.

I would say that a rear entry (lid as the back) would be more functional for doing repairs and/or additions. My Oliva box is roughly split top and bottom and is easily accessible, so I did attach the neck to the lid.

It always seems a shame to hide the pretty artwork on the lids to me.

Dan Tomkinson said:

so you use the lid side as your bridge side ? I always use the back of the box as the top and the lid side as the bottom as long as you releave the neck from the sound board so it isnt stiff, does this make any sense ?
Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:
If you want to play acoustically or with a piezo pickup, you want a box as large as you can get and you want the lid to float free (don't do a through neck that is glued to the lid). You also want the bridge placed in the center of the lid, or as close as you can get it.

This is much less of a concern when dealing with magnetic pups.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin M. Kraft on October 31, 2009 at 8:09pm

My own opinion: COHIBA boxes. I love the rich, buttery tone and crisp sound they get. right now, Cohiba box is my favorite!

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Permalink Reply by Kevin M. Kraft on October 31, 2009 at 8:15pm

There's something liberating about playing something your pieced together with your own two hands that's inspiring!

Travis Woodall said:

I'm with you!! I want one of these things so badly. I have removed the bottom two strings from my cheap ass Jay Turser and tuned the rest of the strings to D-G-D-G just to play around with the tuning. I am loving what I hear so far. Shit, I sound like a real musician, even with a craftsman socket as a slide!!!!

Shane Speal said:
Cigar boxes do not sound great. They sound like crap. Total crap. They're the last resort in the world of musical instruments. Yet we love them. Why? We want something primal. Something deeper than the Delta blues. We want an instrument that will kick our ass when we try to play it.

...Yeah, I'm drunk, but I thought I'd add a dose of perspective. Make a CBG today. Make it from whatever ya go. Then learn to play the damn thing as-is. I guarantee the music you get will be more liberating than any textbook blues song out there.

Shane Speal

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on November 1, 2009 at 1:28am

I agree with Shane.
Last week I ran across the holy grail of CBG. A Macanudo box. I mean Shane plays one, it's got to be good, right?
I was giddy with the ethereal pureness of having and building a Macanudo CBG.
I finished it, strung it, tuned it, strummed it. I almost cried it sounded so bad. I figured i might as well see how it was amped.
WOW, my best sounding amped CBG yet.
But I have my original which I added a carved neck and it's awesome with it's small, yet DEEP No. 2 Monte Cristo.

Big as possible, but IMHO, depth is the ticket.

Matt

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Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 1, 2009 at 3:47am

yeah, I just finished my first one and was devastated when I strung it up. The action and intonation are off to where it is pretty much unplayable. Tuned it to a D-G-B-E to begin with and the intonation from open to the 12 fret on the D is off about a 1/4 of a step but the G is almost dead on, then the B is off like the D and the E is almost dead on. The other thing that I have a problem with is the action. In open position it sounds and feels great but the box I used has a beveled top. While the neck is glued flat to the top, the bevel causes the strings to be raised and the action is about 3/4" off the fretboard at the 9th fret. any ideas?? I did some things really well on this guitar and am pleased with how it looked, but I have some issues to work out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on November 1, 2009 at 4:04am

post a pic if you want a diagnosis.... neck glue to the top? ala dulcimer?

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:

yeah, I just finished my first one and was devastated when I strung it up. The action and intonation are off to where it is pretty much unplayable. Tuned it to a D-G-B-E to begin with and the intonation from open to the 12 fret on the D is off about a 1/4 of a step but the G is almost dead on, then the B is off like the D and the E is almost dead on. The other thing that I have a problem with is the action. In open position it sounds and feels great but the box I used has a beveled top. While the neck is glued flat to the top, the bevel causes the strings to be raised and the action is about 3/4" off the fretboard at the 9th fret. any ideas?? I did some things really well on this guitar and am pleased with how it looked, but I have some issues to work out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 1, 2009 at 4:07am

No, it's glued to the inside of the top. I will shoot some pics to you.

Wichita Sam said:

post a pic if you want a diagnosis.... neck glue to the top? ala dulcimer?

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:
yeah, I just finished my first one and was devastated when I strung it up. The action and intonation are off to where it is pretty much unplayable. Tuned it to a D-G-B-E to begin with and the intonation from open to the 12 fret on the D is off about a 1/4 of a step but the G is almost dead on, then the B is off like the D and the E is almost dead on. The other thing that I have a problem with is the action. In open position it sounds and feels great but the box I used has a beveled top. While the neck is glued flat to the top, the bevel causes the strings to be raised and the action is about 3/4" off the fretboard at the 9th fret. any ideas?? I did some things really well on this guitar and am pleased with how it looked, but I have some issues to work out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 1, 2009 at 4:30am

Here are a few pics. Not sure if you can tell much. the box top is about a 1/4" thick and that is causing some of my action problems. The intonation is the thing I can't figure out.

Travis Woodall said:

No, it's glued to the inside of the top. I will shoot some pics to you.

Wichita Sam said:
post a pic if you want a diagnosis.... neck glue to the top? ala dulcimer?

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:
yeah, I just finished my first one and was devastated when I strung it up. The action and intonation are off to where it is pretty much unplayable. Tuned it to a D-G-B-E to begin with and the intonation from open to the 12 fret on the D is off about a 1/4 of a step but the G is almost dead on, then the B is off like the D and the E is almost dead on. The other thing that I have a problem with is the action. In open position it sounds and feels great but the box I used has a beveled top. While the neck is glued flat to the top, the bevel causes the strings to be raised and the action is about 3/4" off the fretboard at the 9th fret. any ideas?? I did some things really well on this guitar and am pleased with how it looked, but I have some issues to work out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on November 1, 2009 at 9:38am

Travis,

I see a few things with your build you might want to look at.

First off, great build, so no bad comments there. I would say that the neck is sitting a little low. Thats my opinion and I have seen them as you have in yours but usually we see them where the fingerboard/fretboard is flush with the top of the lid. That's something you might want to look at. I can't see how the neck is positioned to the lid well, but I can tell you that I usually make a recess in the neck that is the depth of the lid so the neck and lid are flush.

While this does reduce the neck strength, I compensate with at least that much more added to the bottom of the neck inside the box. I can send pics if you need.

Good news is you can "salvage" what you have and make a great CBG. let me know if I can help.

-Wes

Travis Woodall said:

Here are a few pics. Not sure if you can tell much. the box top is about a 1/4" thick and that is causing some of my action problems. The intonation is the thing I can't figure out.
Travis Woodall said:
No, it's glued to the inside of the top. I will shoot some pics to you.

Wichita Sam said:
post a pic if you want a diagnosis.... neck glue to the top? ala dulcimer?

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:
yeah, I just finished my first one and was devastated when I strung it up. The action and intonation are off to where it is pretty much unplayable. Tuned it to a D-G-B-E to begin with and the intonation from open to the 12 fret on the D is off about a 1/4 of a step but the G is almost dead on, then the B is off like the D and the E is almost dead on. The other thing that I have a problem with is the action. In open position it sounds and feels great but the box I used has a beveled top. While the neck is glued flat to the top, the bevel causes the strings to be raised and the action is about 3/4" off the fretboard at the 9th fret. any ideas?? I did some things really well on this guitar and am pleased with how it looked, but I have some issues to work out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on November 1, 2009 at 10:28am

Ok.... problem easy to diagnose with the pic.... fix is up to you...

When you set the neck (under) the box lid without reliefing (at least) the lid's thickness, you created a situation where any bridge height would create huge string height over the neck (worse the closer it gets).

This is a design problem that can be handled one of two ways.

1) Either relief the neck under the box (at least) the lids thickness (although most players prefer more distance between the string and the box top without sacrificing string action cause by raising the bridge height). If you look at many electric guitars, the neck will be significantly above the level of the guitars body. (You can brace the neck in the body with a piece glued to its length under the neck)

2) or, add a seperate fretboard to the top of the neck that is (at least) the thickness of the neck. This solution allows you to work the fretboard seperately and usually doesn't require additional brace of the neck under the box top.

I prefer to work with thicker than standard necks made by vertically laminating necks to a thickness of 1- 1 1/4 inches thus I can recess, not only for the thickness of the top and some additional height above the top, but I can also recess a space under the neck to all the top to vibrate freely. There is some differing points of view about whether or not this is helpful, but (especially) on acoustic CBGs I like to do it that way.

hope this helps,

the best,
Wichita Sam

Travis Woodall said:

Here are a few pics. Not sure if you can tell much. the box top is about a 1/4" thick and that is causing some of my action problems. The intonation is the thing I can't figure out.

Travis Woodall said:
No, it's glued to the inside of the top. I will shoot some pics to you.

Wichita Sam said:
post a pic if you want a diagnosis.... neck glue to the top? ala dulcimer?

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:
yeah, I just finished my first one and was devastated when I strung it up. The action and intonation are off to where it is pretty much unplayable. Tuned it to a D-G-B-E to begin with and the intonation from open to the 12 fret on the D is off about a 1/4 of a step but the G is almost dead on, then the B is off like the D and the E is almost dead on. The other thing that I have a problem with is the action. In open position it sounds and feels great but the box I used has a beveled top. While the neck is glued flat to the top, the bevel causes the strings to be raised and the action is about 3/4" off the fretboard at the 9th fret. any ideas?? I did some things really well on this guitar and am pleased with how it looked, but I have some issues to work out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on November 1, 2009 at 10:43am

What he said. Part of the sound problem ... if there is one .. is gluing to the lid. I notch the neck for the lid to be even with the top and ad at least 1/16" to let the lid vibrate.
I like Sams idea about adding to the bottom of the neck. I see that in my future ... it'll just add a bit to the build time.

Matt