This came up in a group, so I thought I would ask a larger audience.
When it comes to things like fret positioning and intonation, is it more challenging to get it right with a short scale, like a mandolin or with a long scale, like a bass? I would think the short scale is less forgiving of a fret that is a tad off than a longer scale would be. ( Not that I ever saw a fret slot in the wrong place or anything ;-} ) What do you think?
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I don't think it is so much an issue of precision as it is playability. If you are careful when you fret, you really shouldn't have any such thing as "a tad off".
Okay then, that makes sense. I have no practical opinion on the building aspect yet, no fretwork under my belt.
ChickenboneJohn said:
The question is about building, not playing. The longer the scale the more lattitude you have with your accuracy of fret positioning. On a uke or mandolin which is around half the scale of a conventional guitar, a slight inaccuracy in the fretting will have much more effect on the accuracy of the intonation, and then higher up the fretboard the more critical it gets. It's just a matter of the mathematics.
It has been my experience that short scales are more challenging to get tonally correct. Don
I'm fairly new to this, but logically scale length isn't exactly the issue (although it is an influence). It is simply the distance between any particular fret and the bridge. In other words the precision required to get a fret at the correct position 12" from the bridge on a long scale instrument is not any different to that required on a short scale instrument. The tolerance at 6" will be half that at 12", should you be fretting that near the bridge. Put another way, the tolerance gets tighter as you move toward the bridge whatever the total length of the scale. The only influence that scale length has is to make it more likely to have frets near the bridge on a short scale instrument.
Of course this may just be novice logic. Tell me if I am wrong.
nope, ur dead right.
if one of your frets sounds a wee bit out of tune, it is exponentially more likely to be closer to the bridge than nut
It has been my experience that because of the shortened open string length VSL, the raised frequencies, in other words the string vibrating at a faster rate because of it's length seems to make minor flatness or sharpness to a note more pronounced. An upright bass player who slightly flubs a note won't be as noticeable as the first chair violin player who plays a note slightly off pitch. The fundamental frequencies between the two are vast, bass tones are moving at a slower rate but also has some higher tones in the mix. A mandolin has more pure fundamentals therefore more pitch sensitive. Also the human ear detects wrongness more in mid to upper frequencies.
Thanks for all the responses. Good points raised I think. I was thinking along the lines of what Chickenbone John wrote. And yes, I guess the real issue is the relative distance between the frets, not just the scale length. But since the shorter scale will have less distance between the frets, any error would be greater on a percentage basis. Best to just get it right, sure, but that is not that easy to do, at least until you have a proper jig.
One of the things I love most about the Nation is how eager everyone is to help and how willing they are to share their hard earned knowledge.
These modest instruments present some interesting engineering challenges. First you have to figure out how to make it work, then you have an opportunity to apply those solutions in an artistic way.
Don.
I originally trained as a viola player and I remember one conductor saying that in the past, when playing standards weren't as high, if a double bass player had a difficult passage to play he would just drop a match on the floor and roll it back and forth with his shoe (safety match or a used one presumably). That was all they expected to hear from them anyway.
Bluesheart.
Talking about having a proper jig, I assume you have seen this video on You Tube. It is Daddy Mojo fretting with only standard tools (except for the saw). Better to make a jig, but I must admit I found this interesting as a starting point. Worth watching again for his relaxed delivery.
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