Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by rich gallagher on November 3, 2010 at 5:24am

thanks glenn - i always appreciate the time members take to help everyone out

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on November 3, 2010 at 11:56am

Hi Glenn.

Why do you prefer GDgd tuning for a 4-stringer over DGBe? I have built two 4-stringers, one a string dulcimer with dual melody strings (so actually its a 3 stringer) tuned DAdd. The other is tuned DGBe like a baritone ukulele but with steel guitar strings. As I am unfamiliar with DGBe (and six string guitars in general), I'm wondering why some people tune one way and others is other ways. I wonder which will be better for be so I can learn to play the instrument the easiest. My background is Ukes and stick dulcimers (strum sticks). Also, I'm a picker, not a strummer and my playing level/style is still quite elementary.

-Rand

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 3, 2010 at 12:32pm

Hi Randy,
Yes, there's lots of ways to tune them. I like G D g d because I'm not very good and I can come up with lots of cool song ideas on that tuning. I also play uke but prefer the bluesy tuning for cbg's. I would guess that GDgd or some kind of open major or open minor tuning would suit slide players better than uke tuning too. And I don't have to rearrange my brain when swapping from 3 string GDg to 4 string GDgd.
One other thing - I sell a few of these to guitarists who are looking for something different, get away from standard guitar shapes and get a bit more open string drone goodness, and uke tuning is just a gat with the low E and A taken off so it's not really a fresh start.
But really, whatever smokes your tyres!



Rand Moore said:

Hi Glenn.

Why do you prefer GDgd tuning for a 4-stringer over DGBe? I have built two 4-stringers, one a string dulcimer with dual melody strings (so actually its a 3 stringer) tuned DAdd. The other is tuned DGBe like a baritone ukulele but with steel guitar strings. As I am unfamiliar with DGBe (and six string guitars in general), I'm wondering why some people tune one way and others is other ways. I wonder which will be better for be so I can learn to play the instrument the easiest. My background is Ukes and stick dulcimers (strum sticks). Also, I'm a picker, not a strummer and my playing level/style is still quite elementary.

-Rand

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 3, 2010 at 12:33pm

Oops! Sorry Rand! I bet you hate it when shmucks like me inadvertently call you Randy.


Glenn Reither said:

Hi Randy,
Yes, there's lots of ways to tune them. I like G D g d because I'm not very good and I can come up with lots of cool song ideas on that tuning. I also play uke but prefer the bluesy tuning for cbg's. I would guess that GDgd or some kind of open major or open minor tuning would suit slide players better than uke tuning too. And I don't have to rearrange my brain when swapping from 3 string GDg to 4 string GDgd.
One other thing - I sell a few of these to guitarists who are looking for something different, get away from standard guitar shapes and get a bit more open string drone goodness, and uke tuning is just a gat with the low E and A taken off so it's not really a fresh start.
But really, whatever smokes your tyres!



Rand Moore said:

Hi Glenn.

Why do you prefer GDgd tuning for a 4-stringer over DGBe? I have built two 4-stringers, one a string dulcimer with dual melody strings (so actually its a 3 stringer) tuned DAdd. The other is tuned DGBe like a baritone ukulele but with steel guitar strings. As I am unfamiliar with DGBe (and six string guitars in general), I'm wondering why some people tune one way and others is other ways. I wonder which will be better for be so I can learn to play the instrument the easiest. My background is Ukes and stick dulcimers (strum sticks). Also, I'm a picker, not a strummer and my playing level/style is still quite elementary.

-Rand

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Permalink Reply by Tom on November 3, 2010 at 3:39pm

Very Nice !
As a newb, Someday I am going to really appreaciate your effort on this.
So for now, Thank You !!!

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on November 3, 2010 at 4:22pm

Hi Glenn.

My name is actually "Randolph", so "Randy" and "Rand" both work. If you want to make me wince, call me "Randolph".

Anyways, I think maybe I'll experiment with GDgd to see if I like it. What strings are you using on your instrument to achieve GDgd? Will the 4 highest guitar strings (DGBD) work?

I mentioned I had made a "string dulcimer", but what I meant was "stick dulcimer" which is a generic name for strum sticks. They are typically tuned GDG, DAD, or some other 1-5-8 tuning. I usually tune mine to DAdd. So, going with GDgd might be a more natural move for me as well. Or perhaps DAda.

But, as a picker, I don't really do chords, and in fact chords don't make sense to me, so I must be missing something. The closest thing I do to chords is fingering the first and third strings simultaneously while picking the tune. This sounds pretty good, and for me it's a good answer to the problem where the sound produced by your drone strings drown out the sound of your melody string. I noticed this after I built my 4-stringer with dual melody strings (strings 1 & 2 tuned in unison). I created that as a work around to the loud drone strings problem too. And it works pretty well. Sounds a bit more like a mandolin. But, then when I try it on a tune that uses the second string, it sounds terrible as the second string is not paired. So, one of my future builds will likely be a six-stringer tuned dD-aa-dd. This 2 finger "chord technique", if you can call it that, works only if the tune can be played entirely on one string -- it falls apart if you have to go to the second string. The two fingers I use are the index and middle fingers. I bend them over in a kind of hook shape and run them up and down the neck together as I pick the melody. Thought you might like to know about that technique (assuming you don't already know it).

-Rand

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 3, 2010 at 4:37pm

Hey Rand, a.k.a. The Claw :)
DAda might be a bit low. GDgd is a good compromise for low notes and sparkle I think.
I string mine up with 12, 19(unwound) , 30, and 42. My gats are usually on a 610mm scale (shorter than standard) so heavier strings work better. Building on a shorter scale brings more chord shapes under the fingers, gets the bridge into a good position on the box (about 1/4 of the way from the back and not covering up the purty labels), usually gives me 19 frets (at worst 17).



Rand Moore said:

Hi Glenn.

My name is actually "Randolph", so "Randy" and "Rand" both work. If you want to make me wince, call me "Randolph".

Anyways, I think maybe I'll experiment with GDgd to see if I like it. What strings are you using on your instrument to achieve GDgd? Will the 4 highest guitar strings (DGBD) work?

I mentioned I had made a "string dulcimer", but what I meant was "stick dulcimer" which is a generic name for strum sticks. They are typically tuned GDG, DAD, or some other 1-5-8 tuning. I usually tune mine to DAdd. So, going with GDgd might be a more natural move for me as well. Or perhaps DAda.

But, as a picker, I don't really do chords, and in fact chords don't make sense to me, so I must be missing something. The closest thing I do to chords is fingering the first and third strings simultaneously while picking the tune. This sounds pretty good, and for me it's a good answer to the problem where the sound produced by your drone strings drown out the sound of your melody string. I noticed this after I built my 4-stringer with dual melody strings (strings 1 & 2 tuned in unison). I created that as a work around to the loud drone strings problem too. And it works pretty well. Sounds a bit more like a mandolin. But, then when I try it on a tune that uses the second string, it sounds terrible as the second string is not paired. So, one of my future builds will likely be a six-stringer tuned dD-aa-dd. This 2 finger "chord technique", if you can call it that, works only if the tune can be played entirely on one string -- it falls apart if you have to go to the second string. The two fingers I use are the index and middle fingers. I bend them over in a kind of hook shape and run them up and down the neck together as I pick the melody. Thought you might like to know about that technique (assuming you don't already know it).

-Rand

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on November 3, 2010 at 4:48pm

Hi Glenn.

I forgot to ask, are you using an instrument with a chromatic fret layout or a diatonic fret layout for your GDgd chord shapes?

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 3, 2010 at 5:01pm

That'd be chromatic. Have yet to build a diatonic one. You wouldn't be able to play all of maj/min/7th/maj7th/dim/aug/#9/b9/#11/b6/maj6 on diatonic frets.



Rand Moore said:

Hi Glenn.

I forgot to ask, are you using an instrument with a chromatic fret layout or a diatonic fret layout for your GDgd chord shapes?

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on November 3, 2010 at 10:28pm

Not entirely true, u just cannot play all these chords in all positions.. but u would not want to anyway..
for example in the ionian mode (uncapoed) strummer a major chord can only be played in the i,iv & v positions / a minor in the ii,iii,vi / (dom)7th in the v / maj7th in the i & iv / dim in the vii etc etc..

I have a video somewhere about building chords using a strummer as a compositional and educational tool, i think its in Diane dulci group, check it out.
Glenn's tuning there is excellent for this very thing, another v string gives u easy acces to ur 7s etc without sacrificing ur 5..

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 3, 2010 at 11:00pm

Yeah, sorry Jef, I should clarify. I meant in all keys. Or for any single root. So - and please correct me if I'm wrong- if you tune to G on an ionian diatonic fretboard you can't play a G7 because there is no F anywhere on the instrument.

I'm not for or against any tuning or fret scheme, just did a chord chart for GDgd that shows you how to play any chord in any key, in case someone finds it useful.




Jef Long said:

Not entirely true, u just cannot play all these chords in all positions.. but u would not want to anyway..
for example in the ionian mode (uncapoed) strummer a major chord can only be played in the i,iv & v positions / a minor in the ii,iii,vi / (dom)7th in the v / maj7th in the i & iv / dim in the vii etc etc..

I have a video somewhere about building chords using a strummer as a compositional and educational tool, i think its in Diane dulci group, check it out.
Glenn's tuning there is excellent for this very thing, another v string gives u easy acces to ur 7s etc without sacrificing ur 5..

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on November 4, 2010 at 1:14am

Thank you for sharing this information. Basically there are many configurations of tones 1,3,5 (3 major scale tones) that yields a system of movable chords. I prefer a standard spanish tuning configuration Dgbd / 5135 (See CD 5) A mini version of the full six string DGDgbd / 515135 (See CD 2)
You can certainly use GDgd (1515), but there is no third in the tuning. Actucally, this is a variation (different key) of the bass part of open C tuning (CGCgce / 151513)
Using GDgd tuning you can retune ADf#d (5135). Now you are in Spanish tuning, but instead of the common key of G you are in D.
I use 151 /GDG tuning on my three string (see CD 4), but this could easily be extended to 4 string by adding the d (GDgd)
There is a clear logic behind these approaches. GDB, GBD, DGB, DBG, BGD, BDG offer a wide variety of possibilities in the key of G! Enjoy your practice.

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