Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jason Hollinden on December 27, 2010 at 7:50am

Also, a dumb question just occurred to me.  When measuring the nut to bridge distance, do you go by the lowest string, or the highest string, or an average of the 2?  For my acoustic it was 25.5" for the lowest and 25.25" for the highest.  So if average it should have been 25.375 maybe?

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Permalink Reply by Don Thompson on December 27, 2010 at 8:42am

Intonation is not an average between low strings and high strings, technically each string will have it's own calculation for a fretted guitar, however that is overlooked for slide guitar. The distance from the face of the nut to the 12th fret, and from the 12th fret to the saddle must be equal plus a bit more for intonation compensation. The bridge saddle on this guitar must be moved back, towards the rear of the guitar.  http://www.stewmac.com/fretcalc.html  Others nadder on about other fret calculators but the single reason I like the Stew Mac is it calculates the set back needed for compensation. Nice guitar, looks good. In the future I suggest you use a fret calculator and not the crude method of copying a guitar layout, too much room for mistakes.

Don

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Permalink Reply by Uncle John on December 27, 2010 at 8:55am

Jason,  I copy fret placement off a store bought guitar and it works pretty well for me.   Just from the photos, the distance to fret 1 looks short.....    The guitar looks nice and the cartridge is cool, but that cartidge may be some of the problem.  Does it move when you strum?   I would say double check the frets, mess with or replace the cartridge saddle...  and good luck. 

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Permalink Reply by Uncle John on December 27, 2010 at 9:00am

Ok, on 2nd look,  do you have string grooves in the saddle?   Probably need them.  And the angle from nut to machine head tuners may be a problem.  I run into that on some builds and do not quite understand it,  But some kind of string lowering mechanism above the nut often fixes things.  If you look at photos on the nation you will likely see various screws, bars, etc., to lower the strings between the nut and tuners....    Not sure this is the problem, but it looks like a maybe.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Hollinden on December 27, 2010 at 9:11am

The bridge actually is held in place with tension from the strings, and since both the box and that saddle piece of wood are lacquered, it takes a bit of force to move it at all with strings on.  Basically I ran out of time to gift it, but was I was intending to do was do final adjustments, then glue it down.

 

I'll check the guitar I mapped it against, and mail him some measurements.  It was a late night finishing that up and I very well could have just mapped it off wrong in the 1st place.  :)

 

As a side note, does anyone know of a scale template a person can use to mark that includes nut and bridge?  I'm thinking something that's a sheet of aluminum with slits you can pencil mark through.  The ones I've seen on Stewmac are just for cutting frets only, and not a complete guitar layout.  Something you could clamp on a "finished" guitar or whatnot, mark everything, then cut and done.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on December 27, 2010 at 9:35am

To add to what has already been said, take a tape measure and measure the distance from the point where the strings cross the nut to the place where the strings cross the bridge/saddle. It should be roughly 25.5 inches, give or take. I am betting the measurement is likely much shorter than that.

 

If so, then the only way to bring it into proper intonation would be to move the bridge farther away from the nut, which looks like it will be hard to do, given how you have the strings coming up from underneath. You may not have enough room to move it far enough.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on December 27, 2010 at 9:47am

I use this calculator that prints a PDF template for you.  It does not include the bridge, but I always put it on there anyway because it helps me visualize how long I'll need to make the fingerboard so I get a nice, playable instrument. 

 

http://cigarboxguitars.com/fretfind/nonparallel.php

 

This calculator lets you select number of strings and string spacing.  You can just go with the preset numbers to start, all you are interested in is the fret placement.  Select Multi-page-PDF on the output page, tape your pages together and doublecheck that the 12th fret is 1/2 of your original scale length number.  So for example, if you are making a 24" instrument, be sure the 12th fret is 12" from the nut/zero on your template after you've taped together.  Then mark your 24" on there too, to give you an idea where your floating bridge will end up.

 

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Permalink Reply by Don Thompson on December 27, 2010 at 12:35pm

I see string trees on the headstock.

Uncle John said:

Ok, on 2nd look,  do you have string grooves in the saddle?   Probably need them.  And the angle from nut to machine head tuners may be a problem.  I run into that on some builds and do not quite understand it,  But some kind of string lowering mechanism above the nut often fixes things.  If you look at photos on the nation you will likely see various screws, bars, etc., to lower the strings between the nut and tuners....    Not sure this is the problem, but it looks like a maybe.

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Permalink Reply by Don Thompson on December 27, 2010 at 12:50pm

Uncle John,Overall I get disenchanted when well meaning folks say, "I copied the frets off of such and such" To me, at least, you are locked into finding instruments that is the scale you need. In other words you can't build a 20" scaled instrument if you don't have one to copy from. Tell the truth, you can't. You simply don't know where to begin. It makes no sense to me to not learn how to lay out your own scale and even less sense to say this is a good way to layout fret placement.  Fret to fret measurements are fraught with error. One learns nothing. Maybe I just don't get it.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Gillespie on December 27, 2010 at 5:15pm

It looks like you already have some good sound info from the others. I just thought I would say, that is the coolest idea for a bridge I have seen. Great way to incorporate something very personal in your work.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Gillespie on December 27, 2010 at 5:18pm

I just remebered that stewartmcdonald.com has a fret board calculator. You give the scale length and it tells you the fret positions. This might help you know where to put the bridge to match your frets. I used it to install a prefretted neck on another guitar. I got pretty close... Hope this helps.

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on December 27, 2010 at 7:47pm

Sounds to me like you just don't have it tuned right.

Whats your tuning?

One thing I also see it lots of advice w/ out enuff info.

What is your measurement from the nut to bridge?

What's your measurement from the nut to the 12th fret.

It also looks like the string height may be high ..... that could be causing the tuning to change as the strings are fretted.

 

 

Matt

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