Comment

Comment by Rand Moore on April 13, 2014 at 10:54am

Hi Gary,

Maybe a description of how I make my simple tail pieces will help.

I like to use aluminum meter-sticks (yard sticks) and cut them into maybe 1.5" lengths. Aluminum is a soft metal that's pretty easy to work. A hack saw can be used to cut the aluminum pieces from the yard stick. After I have cut the piece, I file and sand down any rough edges and sharp corners. I also sand off all the paint, then drill three holes along the top edge for the strings (being careful to measure and mark where the holes should be based on string separation), and I drill two mounting holes somewhere in the middle. The idea is to locate this simple tail piece such that the 3 holes just peek over the edge of the tail side of the box. It should be centered around the mid-line of the sound box (as the neck should also be centered). I drill the mounting holes through the aluminum with a slightly larger drill bit than the diameter of the wood screws so that the wood screws can be put through the tail piece without hanging up on the treads, I then use a smaller drill bit to drill the mounting holes in the tail end side of the sound box. When picking this smaller drill bit, I hold the drill bit to the wood screw and look to see if it covers the shaft of the screw, but not the threads. If you can still see the threads on either side of the blocking drill bit, then that's the drill bit you want to use for the mounting holes on the wood side of the sound box. Hopefully, this is a clear enough explanation. I'll see if I have a photo or two handy...

Here's a bird's eye view (above). You can see the 4 strings and the two mounting screws. On this instrument I spray painted the tail-piece black to match the sound box and the bridge, which contrasts well with the brass/gold color of the resonator.

Here (above) you can see how the strings "break" over the bridge on the way to the tail piece. The bridge is a modified violin bridge which I modified by cutting the rounded top edge off so that the strings would lie flat on the bridge.

The two mounting screws of the tail-piece are fastened thru the tail-side of the sound box and into the tail-end of the neck so that the neck is holding pretty much all the string tension.

-Rand.

Comment by Rand Moore on April 13, 2014 at 5:02am

Hi Gary,

I'm not sure if I fully understand what you are trying to do with your tail pieces. They don't have to be very complicated, and usually the simpler the design, the more reliable they'll be. There is something called the "break angle", which is the angle that the strings bend over the bridge (aka saddle) on there way to the tail piece. You want a pretty sharp angle (as opposed to a shallow angle). This can be accomplished by setting your tail piece rather low relative to the top edge of the bridge. Some people like to use a high bridge, and to achieve this without adversly affecting the height of the string off the frets (aka "string action"), they lower the neck angle by a few degrees relative to the surface of the sound board.

It seems you are using a brass tube that you grind off one side of, then drill holes in for your strings. Maybe a photo of your tail piece might help me understand how you are mounting your tail piece and your bridge so I can your question better, rather than my "shotgun" response.

As for the nut, I know the problem you are talking about -- the uncertainty of exactly where the high point of the nut is relative to the frets on your fretboard. The solution I use is to install a "fret 0" on my fretboard and measure the distance to all the other frets from this fixed point. The nut (usually a cut bolt) is relegated to the roll of a string tee -- guiding the strings to the tuners (and setting inter-string spacing). I highly recommend a "fret 0". It makes life a lot simpler.

If you do use a bolt for your nut, then measure the scale length (or fret position) based on the high point of the round shaft of the bolt that the strings bend over on there way to the tuners on the headstock.

-Rand.

Comment by Michael Fred Johnson on April 12, 2014 at 11:07pm

Gary,

This is one simple solution to tailpiece design,the stainless steel came from a strip cut from the end of a pizza shovel.The other photo shows the neck angled down 3 degrees to increase the height of the saddle.

Comment by gary sheldon on April 12, 2014 at 9:36pm

A few thoughts on general CBG design.  A little off subject here, I know.

1.  Tailpiece design:  I haven't seen a design that I am completely satisfied with.  For now, I use a slightly modified standard method.  The through box neck exits the back of the body and the strings terminate there.  There are a few problems with this method.  The most important problem is that the angle of the strings to the bridge is very shallow, causing less downward pressure on the bridge, thus less sound volume.  Another problem is that the strings rub on the back corner of the box, eventually cutting into it.  Yet another problem is that the thinner strings will start cutting into the neck where they exit the tailpiece.  The last problem is just the irritation of having to pull the entire string through that hole to replace it.

I have solved some of these problems, but not all of them.

I make the tail piece shorter than what is standard.  From 1 1/2" down to about 1/2".  This increases the string angle to the bridge somewhat.  When I drill the string holes, I drill a larger diameter hole part way through from the bottom.  This allows s place for the end bobbin to rest without showing.  Next, I saw a slot from the end to the drilled holes.  This allows me to remove the string from the guitar without having to pull it all the way through that little hole.  Useful when I am going to put the same string back on.  I don't have to take the string completely off the tuning machine.  To prevent the thin strings from cutting the back of the neck at the hole, I glue a very small brass tube into the upper part of the hole.  Before doing that, I use a belt sander to grind the tube in half.  Then I align the open side of the tube to the slot that I have cut into the wood..To make it even better, I sometimes put a fret just ahead of the string hole on the top.

As I said, this is not perfect, but an improvement.  I like the idea of using a brass tailpiece, but I haven't figured out exactly how to do that yet.  I have even seen photos of the strings running through holes in the top, but I don't know how they are terminated.

Another thought is the nut.  I stopped using the machine screw type nut early on.  The problem is in measuring from the nut to the bridge and the frets.  The measurements have to be very exact and it is more difficult when using a round cross section nut.  It is difficult to tell exactly where the string becomes unsupported.

I hope this is helpful.  It is late and I am tired.  I will try to send some photos tomorrow.

Any insight to increasing the string angle to the bridge would be appreciated.  A slotted brass tailpiece would probably work better, but I haven't figured out how to fabricate it yet.

Comment by gary sheldon on April 12, 2014 at 8:13pm

Yes, living on the boat.  Sharing it with about 9 guitars and a lot of tools and parts....A meet in Sac would be interesting.  

I have only been into this thing for about 3 months, so I don't know any local CBG builders.  

Are you a builder of home made boxes?  I only found this site about 2 days ago, so I haven't checked it out thourghly.

Also, I just started converting the home made box to a resonator.  I really don't know much about them, but I started building one on a spare top for the home made box.  I call it the Dreadnaught.  Sometimes call it Captain America.

Gary 

Comment by Rand Moore on April 12, 2014 at 4:00pm

Hi Gary.

So you live in Sausalito. I summer in Walnut Creek. That pretty much makes us neighbors. There's a Sacramento CBG Get-Together that meets 2 or 3 times a year and is a pretty enlightening experience. Maybe, if they have one this summer, we can meet there. This event is usually discussed in the "CBG in CALIFORNIA" discussion group. I wonder if there is interest in a SF Bay Area CBG Get-Together? Are you living on the boat? Or, is it just a refuge from the wife & kids?

-Rand.

Comment by gary sheldon on April 12, 2014 at 2:29pm

Thanks for that, Rand.  As for the paint, it is quite ordinary spray paint that I got at the local Ace hardware.  I like the Krylon best because it drys in 10 minutes.  This is kind of my beater guitar that I like to play and keep in my car a lot.  It was actually my first build, but it has had at least 3 different bodies on it.  Kind of a test bed.

  Yes, the other is my first try at a uke.  They are much easier to build with the non-metal strings and very little stress on the neck.  I just glued the neck to the underside of the top.  It works well.

  My shop is the galley of my 36' sailboat.

  Thanks again

Comment by Rand Moore on April 12, 2014 at 2:09pm

Hi Gary,

I went to your personal page on CBN and copied the URL for the photos to this comment using the Add Image button positioned next to the "Link" button on the tool bar provided when you add a comment. I have noticed on occasion that this tool bar doesn't appear, so I generally will save the text to my composition in Notepad, then exit my browser, re-load my browser and revisit the page where I was. Usually that will make the tool bar re-appear and then I can copy my text back in, and pictures, modify the HTML, whatever. If that doesn't work for you I'd try another browser. I usually use Firefox and occasionally Google's browser. So, here are the 2 photos you tried to post in your comments below...

and

The red-white-and-blue looks real nice. What kind of paint did you use? I have been painting some of my instruments with black spray paint, but I'm thinking of switching to a mixture of black poster paint and what I call "water-based polyurethane".  I want to get a kind of paint that will absorb well into the wood and will provide a nice protective coating that is water resistant. Other folks should feel free to contribute their ideas as to how best to paint / finish their boxes.

From your second photo, it appears to be a cigar box ukulele, right? Both look like nice builds. Well have fun building and playing...

-Rand.

Comment by gary sheldon on April 12, 2014 at 7:44am

I couldn't manage to get the photo in this forum, but it is on my page.

Comment by Thomas "Duck" Petry on April 12, 2014 at 7:00am

Can't tell if it's the wrong photo Gary. Don't see any photo at all.

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