Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on August 25, 2011 at 4:14am

Hi David. When you don't tilt the headstock back, you need what is commonly referred to as a "string tree", and this is some kind of device that you screw to the headstock, and it pulls the strings down and holds them against the slot in the nut. As you can see from this picture, I use a flat piece of aluminum and secure it with a screw.

 

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/photo/god-of-fire-002-1?context=user

 

You need to keep the strings pretty close to the tops of the frets. If you have them too high and you press down on them with your finger, they will go sharp on you and the notes all the way up the fretboard will be off. Get the string height correct at the nut first, then make any changes to the bridge.

 

As far as the slot in the nut, you want it to be as close to the size of the string as you can. If you get the slot too wide, it will allow the string to buzz. Using a string tree will help a bit.

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Permalink Reply by David Beasley on August 25, 2011 at 4:28am

Thank you very much Dan, this was much needed I'll do that. 

Dan Sleep said:

Hi David. When you don't tilt the headstock back, you need what is commonly referred to as a "string tree", and this is some kind of device that you screw to the headstock, and it pulls the strings down and holds them against the slot in the nut. As you can see from this picture, I use a flat piece of aluminum and secure it with a screw.

 

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/photo/god-of-fire-002-1?context=user

 

You need to keep the strings pretty close to the tops of the frets. If you have them too high and you press down on them with your finger, they will go sharp on you and the notes all the way up the fretboard will be off. Get the string height correct at the nut first, then make any changes to the bridge.

 

As far as the slot in the nut, you want it to be as close to the size of the string as you can. If you get the slot too wide, it will allow the string to buzz. Using a string tree will help a bit.

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on August 25, 2011 at 5:20am

Welcome to the world of cbg building David.

What Dan said will work, but ..... IMHO ( and what I would do).......

 

You're gonna hafta rebuild your neck.

You should have left the back of the neck straight and cut down the fretboard side. This would have lowered the tuners enough to give you some break angle over the nut.

The bridge looks OK as does everything else.

 

 

AFKAM

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Permalink Reply by David Beasley on August 25, 2011 at 1:44pm

See annoyingly it wasn't me who crafted the neck or the head stock, It was my dad (I am a rubbish wood worker!) but I did suggest to my dad to cut it fretbord side and he cut it opposite to what I said.

Thanks everyone for the advice very much needed! :-)

Artist Formerly Known as Matt said:

Welcome to the world of cbg building David.

What Dan said will work, but ..... IMHO ( and what I would do).......

 

You're gonna hafta rebuild your neck.

You should have left the back of the neck straight and cut down the fretboard side. This would have lowered the tuners enough to give you some break angle over the nut.

The bridge looks OK as does everything else.

 

 

AFKAM

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Permalink Reply by Matt Dudley on August 25, 2011 at 6:32am

i haven't built one yet but couldn't he just turn the neck around?

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on August 25, 2011 at 6:59am

David,

A couple of other things I see (or don't, as the case may be):

1) You appear to have cut fret slots. Is the neck actually fretted with steel frets, or are these just markers for playing slide?
2) Your pic of the headstock doesn't actually show the nut. A pic of that would help ( although both Dan and Matt make very good fixit points about string trees / rebuilding the neck). If you don't rebuild the neck with a tilted headstock, you at least need to carve down the headstock flat, about half its current thickness, so that you have enough room to install string trees (small eyelet screws will work, as will a flat metal or wood piece screwed into the headstock over the strings and behind the nut). However, if you do carve out the headstock, then you will have to glue a flat piece of wood to the back of the headstock, about the same thickness as you carved out from the top, otherwise, your tuning machine spindles will stick up too high, and even with string trees, will not get enough string break angle over the nut for proper tunability.
3) Your headstock pic does show something else, though - the bushings on the machine head tuner spindles need to be inset flush with the headstock face. Looks like the holes need to be routed out a bit bigger. They should fit snugly into the routed hole, without any rotation. You could always glue them in. My guess is the top edge of the bushings is what is causing your strings to snap. In your pic, the bushing flange is right at the hole in the tuning spindle. You try to wind a string more than one wrap, or even less, and that flange will crimp or cut into the string. You keep winding to try to
tension it up to pitch, and boom!
4) Though your wooden saddle will work for awhile, eventually the wooden string notches will wear out and string buzz / rattle will ensue. You might try using a piece of brass round stock, or even a threaded bolt, set into a rounded groove let into the top of the saddle, so that you won't need string notches. This will also provide some much needed string break angle at the saddle; currently, it looks like your string-through bridge holes line up directly with the notches in your saddle, with almost no string break angle.
5) I'd go with Dan's advice to focus on the string height at the nut first, before making adjustments at the bridge.

Just my $0.02.

Or you could start on build #2, fixing what went wrong on #1. Most of us go through this. Let us know what works for you, and post pics of the fix(es) that worked for you. Others will definitely have the same or similar issues with their first build.

Good luck!

Oily

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Permalink Reply by David Beasley on August 25, 2011 at 1:37pm

They're just slots... They were originally steel frets but I decided to take them out

oilyfool said:

David, A couple of other things I see (or don't, as the case may be):

1) You appear to have cut fret slots. Is the neck actually fretted with steel frets, or are these just markers for playing slide?
2) Your pic of the headstock doesn't actually show the nut. A pic of that would help ( although both Dan and Matt make very good fixit points about string trees / rebuilding the neck). If you don't rebuild the neck with a tilted headstock, you at least need to carve down the headstock flat, about half its current thickness, so that you have enough room to install string trees (small eyelet screws will work, as will a flat metal or wood piece screwed into the headstock over the strings and behind the nut). However, if you do carve out the headstock, then you will have to glue a flat piece of wood to the back of the headstock, about the same thickness as you carved out from the top, otherwise, your tuning machine spindles will stick up too high, and even with string trees, will not get enough string break angle over the nut for proper tunability.
3) Your headstock pic does show something else, though - the bushings on the machine head tuner spindles need to be inset flush with the headstock face. Looks like the holes need to be routed out a bit bigger. They should fit snugly into the routed hole, without any rotation. You could always glue them in. My guess is the top edge of the bushings is what is causing your strings to snap. In your pic, the bushing flange is right at the hole in the tuning spindle. You try to wind a string more than one wrap, or even less, and that flange will crimp or cut into the string. You keep winding to try to
tension it up to pitch, and boom!
4) Though your wooden saddle will work for awhile, eventually the wooden string notches will wear out and string buzz / rattle will ensue. You might try using a piece of brass round stock, or even a threaded bolt, set into a rounded groove let into the top of the saddle, so that you won't need string notches. This will also provide some much needed string break angle at the saddle; currently, it looks like your string-through bridge holes line up directly with the notches in your saddle, with almost no string break angle.
5) I'd go with Dan's advice to focus on the string height at the nut first, before making adjustments at the bridge.

Just my $0.02.

Or you could start on build #2, fixing what went wrong on #1. Most of us go through this. Let us know what works for you, and post pics of the fix(es) that worked for you. Others will definitely have the same or similar issues with their first build.

Good luck!

Oily

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on August 25, 2011 at 7:22am

Sumethin' like this would work:

 

 

Which isn't exactly what Dan mentioned nor Matt, but if you have to rebuild, this might be an idea. I would try the string trees first. Then rebuild as Matt suggested. Also you note that I added a poplar fretboard that sits above the neck (by 1/4") so that would help the string height issue.

 

The extra on the backside is what was cut from the front side, just glued onto the back. Is easier than it looks.

 

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on August 25, 2011 at 7:23am

And not to flood you with suggestions, but the ultimate goal as far as the strings passing over the nut is to essentially have the holes in the tuning peg shafts should be below the level where they would pass over the nut.

 

You want to have downward pressure on the strings against the nut. Like Oilyfool says, you want to have "string break angle", which is the angle the strings have when passing over the nut or the bridge. If that angle is too shallow, then there is not enough downward pressure on the string and it will buzz.

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on August 25, 2011 at 7:26am

"Or you could start on build #2, fixing what went wrong on #1. Most of us go through this. Let us know what works for you, and post pics of the fix(es) that worked for you. Others will definitely have the same or similar issues with their first build."

 

Yup. Heck my first one I replaced the neck and on my Macanudo P/C acoustic, I've not only replaced the fretboard once, but refretted it recently.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on August 25, 2011 at 7:28am

After looking at your pictures again with that tailpiece with the three holes in it, how are you securing that to the lid? I hope it is really secured well, like with screws from the back side. The pressure from the strings can be considerable and I would hate to have it come loose. It could be potentially dangerous.

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on August 25, 2011 at 7:41am

David,

Take a look at Wes' headstock above, and you can see what I meant about lowering the headstock face, and gluing wood to the back of the headstock, to provide the proper orientation for the tuning pegs. As Dan says, this will drop the tuning peg hole below the level of the fretboard. Wes' suggestion to add a 1/4" fretboard is also another very workable solution. Some combination of these should get your No. 1 in playable condition. Try to attack only one issue at a time, see how that works, then move on to another suggestion.

Oily

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