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Permalink Reply by joe cerroni on May 30, 2011 at 3:54am

bing="Because it's not Google"

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on May 30, 2011 at 4:55am

Things have changed dramatically over the years, mainly to be considerate of everyone. I remember as a boy, in my neck of the woods, it was all about Xmas with a nod to the Jewish faith. Christmas lawn ornaments (Santa, manger, etc) were in front of city hall. Today to honor all the different Winter season holidays in this multicultural area, it is impossible to display all that stuff, so it is easier to do nothing. Church and state are separate. Happy Holidays is the correct statement today.

I guess it is the same with large international corporations too. No need to step on the toes of foreign customers to cater to your domestic customers. It is a global market place. Honor US veterans who fought against people who are no longer our enemies?

There was a time "Buy American" supported domestic interests. Today, even American iconic corporations like Coke A Cola with their main office located in the USA makes the sum of their money overseas. This money never hits US shores. America's business world with all it's out sourcing has greatly changed the way we do business here and how our economy grows.

Thanks for sharing.       

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on May 30, 2011 at 11:59am

Yea, I suppose. But I think I am going to have to exercise my discretion anyway, and make a conscious decision not to patronize anything that Google supports. My doing that will make absolutely NO difference to them, but it will make me feel better about it.

 

Keni Lee Burgess said:

Things have changed dramatically over the years, mainly to be considerate of everyone. I remember as a boy, in my neck of the woods, it was all about Xmas with a nod to the Jewish faith. Christmas lawn ornaments (Santa, manger, etc) were in front of city hall. Today to honor all the different Winter season holidays in this multicultural area, it is impossible to display all that stuff, so it is easier to do nothing. Church and state are separate. Happy Holidays is the correct statement today.

I guess it is the same with large international corporations too. No need to step on the toes of foreign customers to cater to your domestic customers. It is a global market place. Honor US veterans who fought against people who are no longer our enemies?

There was a time "Buy American" supported domestic interests. Today, even American iconic corporations like Coke A Cola with their main office located in the USA makes the sum of their money overseas. This money never hits US shores. America's business world with all it's out sourcing has greatly changed the way we do business here and how our economy grows.

Thanks for sharing.       

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Permalink Reply by Craig Cox on May 30, 2011 at 2:09pm

Dan,

Your mistake is believing that corporations have anything you might define as "patriotism". The only thing the corporation, from Google to General Motors to General Electric, owes allegiance to is the bottom line for the shareholders. You might have bailed on Google a few years ago when they agreed to censoring their search results in order to do business in China. Once you know what is paramount to the corporation, profits, then you can make your choices. Certainly, not all businesses are run this way, (Whole Foods is a good example) but this is the model for the vast majority. Put up a shiny office tower and pretend to be (American, French, British, Japanese, fill-in-the-blank...), set up manufacturing or service providing in the cheapest places, hide earnings from the "home government" to avoid taxes, and sock away as much profit as possible. 

 

And, in my opinion, Google's small flag and ribbon is appropriate for what should be a somber day of remembrance, rather than hot dogs, picnics, fireworks and stockcar racing. Also, Keni, Google's pages look different in each country they operate in. Their small flag appears only on the U.S. version. If any former enemies would be offended, it might be our Southern cousins rather than the Germans, Vietnamese, Mexicans, British, etc... Just sayin'...

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on May 30, 2011 at 2:48pm

Craig, Yea, I get all that, I really do. And I don't begrudge any entity for doing what it takes to improve their bottom line.

 

But, when you look at the types of things that Google has "celebrated" by modifying the art on their home page, it seems out of balance. They can celebrate the day the electric carving knife was invented, or some other obscure "event of note", but they omit references to things that matter to the vast majority of the American public, like September 11th, or Memorial Day, or other patriotic themed events.

 

A subtle tip of the hat to your country does not have to turn into a loss of profits.

Craig Cox said:

Dan,

Your mistake is believing that corporations have anything you might define as "patriotism". The only thing the corporation, from Google to General Motors to General Electric, owes allegiance to is the bottom line for the shareholders. You might have bailed on Google a few years ago when they agreed to censoring their search results in order to do business in China. Once you know what is paramount to the corporation, profits, then you can make your choices. Certainly, not all businesses are run this way, (Whole Foods is a good example) but this is the model for the vast majority. Put up a shiny office tower and pretend to be (American, French, British, Japanese, fill-in-the-blank...), set up manufacturing or service providing in the cheapest places, hide earnings from the "home government" to avoid taxes, and sock away as much profit as possible. 

 

And, in my opinion, Google's small flag and ribbon is appropriate for what should be a somber day of remembrance, rather than hot dogs, picnics, fireworks and stockcar racing. Also, Keni, Google's pages look different in each country they operate in. Their small flag appears only on the U.S. version. If any former enemies would be offended, it might be our Southern cousins rather than the Germans, Vietnamese, Mexicans, British, etc... Just sayin'...

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Permalink Reply by Craig Cox on May 30, 2011 at 3:08pm

Dan, 

You may have missed my point. You said "A subtle tip of the hat to your country ..." Google does not have a country. Neither does GM, Mobil Exxon, McDonalds, HSBC, Toyota, Wal-Mart, or Deutsche Bank. Although it is smart business to give such "tips of the hat" to whatever country one is doing business in at the moment. In this case, I think Google did just that with a subtle, quiet, understated flag. Look, I am not necessarily a "Google-lover" though it sounds like I'm defending them (I suppose I am as far as the small flag goes). It's fun and educational when they celebrate Jules Verne's birthday with a 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea theme, or some invention, etc. But, as I said, Memorial Day should be subtle, quiet, reserved, serious. I think their icon reflects that. And, I'd be surprised if they did not mark 9/11/11 in some similarly low-key way.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on May 30, 2011 at 3:51pm

No, I got your point, I just respectfully disagree. Google was founded in the USA, and right or wrong, I deem it to be a US company, regardless of their international offerings.

 

And, I am totally with you on the reserved aspect of a solemn occasion, though I don't necessarily think the Bing home page is over the top.

 

And, at least one year that I know of for sure, they did not mark 9/11 in any way at all. Total silence.

 

But, nothing we discuss here will change the way things are. I respect your opinion, and your comments are obviously well thought out. I appreciate your responses.

Craig Cox said:

Dan, 

You may have missed my point. You said "A subtle tip of the hat to your country ..." Google does not have a country. Neither does GM, Mobil Exxon, McDonalds, HSBC, Toyota, Wal-Mart, or Deutsche Bank. Although it is smart business to give such "tips of the hat" to whatever country one is doing business in at the moment. In this case, I think Google did just that with a subtle, quiet, understated flag. Look, I am not necessarily a "Google-lover" though it sounds like I'm defending them (I suppose I am as far as the small flag goes). It's fun and educational when they celebrate Jules Verne's birthday with a 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea theme, or some invention, etc. But, as I said, Memorial Day should be subtle, quiet, reserved, serious. I think their icon reflects that. And, I'd be surprised if they did not mark 9/11/11 in some similarly low-key way.

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on May 30, 2011 at 4:24pm

Great discussion. I will not get started about Whole Foods. Worked for them for 3 years. What they project publicly is not how things function internally for their employees. I see Dan's point. Unfortunately, I think with the shift to the "New World Order" government is no longer concerned with domestic affairs as much as international affairs. (Maybe this position holds true for corporations too) Look at the floods of New Orleans. It is clear we responded quicker and with stronger financial aid to other parts of the world. Fair trade is another corporate response to raping third world countries of cheap labor. Not to open another can of worms, but government is no longer an advocate for the public, but a spokeman for corporate America. Special interest groups and lobbyist are in charge. I personally will never look for ethical conduct from an investor driven corporation. They answer directly to their share holders. Customer's interest are only applicable if they increase the bottom line. Most consumers have no clue to corporate propaganda. Put a spin on it, they will feel better and buy it anyway. Wow...I said entirely too much. Thank you for listening and your consideration. Enjoy          

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Permalink Reply by Craig Cox on May 31, 2011 at 9:36am

Keni,

I agree completely (though when you said "fair trade" I think you meant "free trade", two totally different things). I'm curious about your Whole Foods experience. I've read good things about the company. We don't have any here in Western New York, but I've presented them to my economics students as a relatively good example of a principled company. Not so?

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on May 31, 2011 at 12:25pm

Well, I can only speak from my own experience, but as an employee it was a move you up, move you out policy. In the 3 years, I worked in Prepared Foods, I had no less that 5 Team Leaders. They wanted you to move up into a higher position, but there was no training or support. Once you failed, out the door you go. I saw a lot of this. I worked most of my life as a professional chef and I can tell you the way things run there are nothing like any kitchen I have ever worked in. No direct chain of command. I spent most of my time doing what needed to be done and the other half being told what I did not do. It was impossible to ever know what your job was. They believed regardless of your position, you should be able to do any job. Unfortunately, if I wasn't cooking because they wanted me to work the front counter, no food was getting cooked. Then when there was no food, they would ask me why I didn't cook any. I resigned. They also fired a chef I worked with for close to a decade. One of the hardest working responsible chefs I know. They said she failed to do her job. It is difficult to make food when there is no product in house. Every department is a separate entity. If there is no money to order food, they wanted you to wing it. No consistency. Customers think the food is good. They sell food that is made off premises and mix it in a case with food made in store. Not all of it is freshly made. I will never step into their store again. I could say more but... Thanks for listening.      

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Permalink Reply by Craig Cox on May 31, 2011 at 2:06pm

Certainly sounds like a poorly managed store. Hopefully the whole organization is not like that. thanks for sharing your experience, Keni. Hope you are doing something more enjoyable and less stressful these days.

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