Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on December 16, 2010 at 10:05am

Absolutely.  You don't want to get anything even approaching a file or fret saw anywhere near your neck after it's finished.  That's why they call it "finishing".  You're supposed to be done.  :)

Don Thompson said:

I prefer to fret and then finish my necks. I use blue masking tape and cover the frets and the top of the fingerboard then apply my finish. Too much filing, sanding, steel wooling that creates at least to me much more work to protect than doing the finish last.

Don

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Permalink Reply by John Zant on December 16, 2010 at 3:06pm

Justin, you have the best questions. After reading all the responses I'm gonna take the plunge and do the next one the correct way.....I ordered my flake this evening and am gonna do what Josh (and a couple others) seem to say. One question, what about the pumice? is it really that important on say a maple neck? What if I want to use the french polish on a stipped down cigar box? I'd appreciate any response to this. Thanks in advance!

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Permalink Reply by Craig Cox on December 16, 2010 at 4:01pm

sand down to the smoothness you want, then apply good old tung oil. wipe on, buff off, 3 or 4 coats, 24 hours between each. easy, natural finish, no stain, no plastic, just beautiful wood.

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on December 16, 2010 at 5:06pm

I wish I could give you a good answer on this but I've never bothered with pumice.  I can't give you a very informed answer.  What I can say is that I've never felt as though my guitar finishes were lacking because I left out the pumice.  The best I could offer is that you try one neck with pumice and one without and see which you like best.  You certainly won't have to worry about ruining either one.  As I've noted before, FP is extremely easy to repair if you screw it up and sands off very easily with a moderate grit paper.

 

One other thing: if you go the pumice route, make sure you get it ground as fine as you can.  The luthier I learned from (via video) indicated that he had tried medium ground and that it had left small white deposits (although minimal) in some of the more open pores of his body.
John Zant said:

Justin, you have the best questions. After reading all the responses I'm gonna take the plunge and do the next one the correct way.....I ordered my flake this evening and am gonna do what Josh (and a couple others) seem to say. One question, what about the pumice? is it really that important on say a maple neck? What if I want to use the french polish on a stipped down cigar box? I'd appreciate any response to this. Thanks in advance!

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on December 17, 2010 at 12:45am

Ive seen a video where they used (colored) joint compound as a grain filler BUT this wasn't necessarily as a base for French Polish. That and it being stained a darker color, they were using it as a replacement for pumice/grin filler.

 

Darn, I wish I could find that video...

 

-WY

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

I wish I could give you a good answer on this but I've never bothered with pumice.  I can't give you a very informed answer.  What I can say is that I've never felt as though my guitar finishes were lacking because I left out the pumice.  The best I could offer is that you try one neck with pumice and one without and see which you like best.  You certainly won't have to worry about ruining either one.  As I've noted before, FP is extremely easy to repair if you screw it up and sands off very easily with a moderate grit paper.

 

One other thing: if you go the pumice route, make sure you get it ground as fine as you can.  The luthier I learned from (via video) indicated that he had tried medium ground and that it had left small white deposits (although minimal) in some of the more open pores of his body.
John Zant said:

Justin, you have the best questions. After reading all the responses I'm gonna take the plunge and do the next one the correct way.....I ordered my flake this evening and am gonna do what Josh (and a couple others) seem to say. One question, what about the pumice? is it really that important on say a maple neck? What if I want to use the french polish on a stipped down cigar box? I'd appreciate any response to this. Thanks in advance!

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Permalink Reply by John Zant on December 17, 2010 at 1:26am

Thanks Josh! I think I'll try both methods and see what is achievable. I guess if the grains is hard and tight (maple) then the pumice really wouldn't accomplish much. I can see where if the grain is open and porous (mahogany, cedar) that the filling capabilities would be helpful. Thanks man, I appreciate the insight.

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

I wish I could give you a good answer on this but I've never bothered with pumice.  I can't give you a very informed answer.  What I can say is that I've never felt as though my guitar finishes were lacking because I left out the pumice.  The best I could offer is that you try one neck with pumice and one without and see which you like best.  You certainly won't have to worry about ruining either one.  As I've noted before, FP is extremely easy to repair if you screw it up and sands off very easily with a moderate grit paper.

 

One other thing: if you go the pumice route, make sure you get it ground as fine as you can.  The luthier I learned from (via video) indicated that he had tried medium ground and that it had left small white deposits (although minimal) in some of the more open pores of his body.
John Zant said:

Justin, you have the best questions. After reading all the responses I'm gonna take the plunge and do the next one the correct way.....I ordered my flake this evening and am gonna do what Josh (and a couple others) seem to say. One question, what about the pumice? is it really that important on say a maple neck? What if I want to use the french polish on a stipped down cigar box? I'd appreciate any response to this. Thanks in advance!

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Permalink Reply by colin mcgrath on December 17, 2010 at 3:43am

just chiming in for easy access to this information from my page. I have not used anything besides stain in the past. I recently bought a can of tung oil low gloss, simply for the convenience and experience with a finish. Thanks for all this information guys.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Reaney on December 17, 2010 at 8:54am

In the theatre we have traditionally used French polishes, or French varnish, in the making of props.  You can add alcohol based aniline dyes to the mix to get some very intense transparent colors. Look to Woodworkers Supply. Be careful with the stuff.  It's very concentrated and the powder can get everywhere.  Wear a mask when you mix it up until it dissolves in the alcohol.

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Permalink Reply by rich poulin on December 17, 2010 at 12:28pm

I too use oil (tung & teak oil), usually 1 or 2 coats, then I apply "Antiquax natural". which is a beeswax and carnuaba mix paste wax. I love the feel and smell of it. Makes a very smooth finish and lets the wood remain as natural-looking as possible.

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on December 17, 2010 at 2:15pm

From what I've seen, the pumice isn't used so much as a grain filler as it is a mild abrasive designed to break up the shellac itself and work it deeper into any pores that are there.  It's possible that I've misinterpreted it too.

John Zant said:

Thanks Josh! I think I'll try both methods and see what is achievable. I guess if the grains is hard and tight (maple) then the pumice really wouldn't accomplish much. I can see where if the grain is open and porous (mahogany, cedar) that the filling capabilities would be helpful. Thanks man, I appreciate the insight.

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

I wish I could give you a good answer on this but I've never bothered with pumice.  I can't give you a very informed answer.  What I can say is that I've never felt as though my guitar finishes were lacking because I left out the pumice.  The best I could offer is that you try one neck with pumice and one without and see which you like best.  You certainly won't have to worry about ruining either one.  As I've noted before, FP is extremely easy to repair if you screw it up and sands off very easily with a moderate grit paper.

 

One other thing: if you go the pumice route, make sure you get it ground as fine as you can.  The luthier I learned from (via video) indicated that he had tried medium ground and that it had left small white deposits (although minimal) in some of the more open pores of his body.
John Zant said:

Justin, you have the best questions. After reading all the responses I'm gonna take the plunge and do the next one the correct way.....I ordered my flake this evening and am gonna do what Josh (and a couple others) seem to say. One question, what about the pumice? is it really that important on say a maple neck? What if I want to use the french polish on a stipped down cigar box? I'd appreciate any response to this. Thanks in advance!

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on December 17, 2010 at 3:20pm

Right. From what I read you are right that it aids in leveling out the shellac and help the shellac fill pores, not the itself filling pores. Also before we all had sandpaper, pumice was used with the muneca (the pad you apply the shellac wth) to do the work of sanding surfaces.

 

-WY

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

From what I've seen, the pumice isn't used so much as a grain filler as it is a mild abrasive designed to break up the shellac itself and work it deeper into any pores that are there.  It's possible that I've misinterpreted it too.

John Zant said:

Thanks Josh! I think I'll try both methods and see what is achievable. I guess if the grains is hard and tight (maple) then the pumice really wouldn't accomplish much. I can see where if the grain is open and porous (mahogany, cedar) that the filling capabilities would be helpful. Thanks man, I appreciate the insight.

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

I wish I could give you a good answer on this but I've never bothered with pumice.  I can't give you a very informed answer.  What I can say is that I've never felt as though my guitar finishes were lacking because I left out the pumice.  The best I could offer is that you try one neck with pumice and one without and see which you like best.  You certainly won't have to worry about ruining either one.  As I've noted before, FP is extremely easy to repair if you screw it up and sands off very easily with a moderate grit paper.

 

One other thing: if you go the pumice route, make sure you get it ground as fine as you can.  The luthier I learned from (via video) indicated that he had tried medium ground and that it had left small white deposits (although minimal) in some of the more open pores of his body.
John Zant said:

Justin, you have the best questions. After reading all the responses I'm gonna take the plunge and do the next one the correct way.....I ordered my flake this evening and am gonna do what Josh (and a couple others) seem to say. One question, what about the pumice? is it really that important on say a maple neck? What if I want to use the french polish on a stipped down cigar box? I'd appreciate any response to this. Thanks in advance!

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Dubman on December 17, 2010 at 7:28pm

French polish.  I usually fill pores by pumicing after the initial spit coats, but if you're in a hurry, you can lay on a few heavy coats and cut them back level with 320 - 400, either dry or wet with naptha (wet-dry paper is only needed if you use with water).  I prefer dry sanding, because I can see where the gloss has been cut and move on to the next area.  Bodying goes fast with 2 lb.  Level with 600 if you start to get trapped lint or ridges that the pad won't take out -- that usually happens when you use too wet a pad, or you try to build too heavy a coat per session.  Can or flake?  Sealcoat is dewaxed 2 lb, works marginally better than regular 3 lb.  No experience with flake, but you can get colors unavailable

in canned, such as garnet or buttonlac.  Finish with a couple of glaze coat sessions with 1 lb cut and plenty of alcohol, then spirit off with a barely dampened pad.  You won't need Meguire's to bring up the shine.

 

For fingerboards, Tru-oil is nice, durable.

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