Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Roger Martin on May 9, 2010 at 4:06pm

I agree with Sam again,
While it IS POSSIBLE to sometimes keep a piece tuned with friction pegs , theres a REASON that geared pegs were invented.Their simply EASIER to use.
Yes friction CAN work.But why go through all the stress of messing with them if theres a better/easier way to do it?
I have built using friction,SOMETIMES it adds to the romance ( if you will) of the piece , but more then likely what it'll do is keep you from enjoying the instrument as often as you would have if you didnt have to fight it each time you picked it up.
Just my 2 cents, which is worth about 1/2 cent lol

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Permalink Reply by Roger Harris on May 9, 2010 at 4:52pm

Thanks Russell. I have to remember that "no rule" rule.

Russell Z said:

Congratulations on your acquisition, and welcome to the addiction!

First off...There are no rules!!!

Friction pegs are usually tapered when installed to make them grip better. Here is a link where a guy makes his own: http://www.instructables.com/id/Cookie-Tin-Banjo-Part-3-Make-Tuning...
including making a reamer for the holes from a pair of scissors.

"Curving" the string isn't a mistake, some people have used small eyescrews to "redirect" the strings.



Good luck, and have fun!

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Permalink Reply by Roger Harris on May 9, 2010 at 4:53pm

Thanks Roger, your 2 cents is worth avoiding a million bucks of frustration for me. I am all for flowing downhill.
Rog

Roger Martin said:

I agree with Sam again,
While it IS POSSIBLE to sometimes keep a piece tuned with friction pegs , theres a REASON that geared pegs were invented.Their simply EASIER to use.
Yes friction CAN work.But why go through all the stress of messing with them if theres a better/easier way to do it?
I have built using friction,SOMETIMES it adds to the romance ( if you will) of the piece , but more then likely what it'll do is keep you from enjoying the instrument as often as you would have if you didnt have to fight it each time you picked it up.
Just my 2 cents, which is worth about 1/2 cent lol

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Permalink Reply by Roger Harris on May 9, 2010 at 5:01pm

Wow, great idea and beautiful craftsmanship. Could you come over to the Big Island tomorrow and help me do that.? That is violin, cello and upright bass style, huh. I hope my job ends up looking one tenth as nice as that. I may end up riding the broomstick but I will tame the sucker one way or the other.
I am sure the answer is on here somewhere but any suggestions on steel string gauge size? I would like to tune to open D or G? I will wait on installing them until after the head mod.
Thanks Wes
Roger

Wes Yates said:

DOH!!!


How about this, if you want to use uke or violin or even dulcimer pegs, why don't you mod the holes like I mention above and then dig out a vertical channel somewhere in the 3/8" - 1/2" range that is about 3" long (or will accommodate the distance between the pegs you have).

Something similar to what I did here.

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on May 9, 2010 at 5:03pm

Sam +20!

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Roger Harris on May 9, 2010 at 5:07pm

Thanks Sam. I was only considering uke or other tuners because I though maybe some of them might work like the friction pegs. I really just want some tuners that stay in tune longer than 5 seconds and pegs that don't require me to twist them with all of my might. I am working about wearing body armor when I tune up the CBG since I am cranking probably too much tension into them and the CBG sings by itself.

Wichita Sam said:

Ok..... listen, you need to think about what kind of instrument you want to end up with. If you want an instrument that plays nylon stings link a ukulele, then go ahead and use ukulele tuners. but, especially friction uke pegs are almost useless with steel strings. The tension required to tune steel strings will overpower uke pegs.

The only friction pegs that I have had any luck with is cello pegs and that was only marginally successful. If you want to have a playable instruments, stick with guitar tuners.......

JMHO opinion....

Wichita Sam

Roger Harris said:

Wes,

It seems the Ukelele Friction Pegs from Stewmac might work for me. I would just have to enlarge my current pegs holes from 3/16" to 5/16" Any ideas about that? I noticed on Crow's video that he put his 3 pegs on the same side of the stick apparently with no offset. Think that could work for me? Based on your earlier comment, Is it a mistake in your opinion to curve the string between the nut and the tuner peg?
Roger

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Permalink Reply by Michael Gajeski on May 9, 2010 at 6:21pm

Crow has had some really good luck with friction tuners made with eye bolts. He sets it up so that he has a nut, then a washer, then the neck, then another washer, and finally a wing nut. Before you tune, tighten the wing nut way down so that you can still turn it but with quite a bit of resistance. If you try to get the string tensioned first and THEN tighten the wing nut, the string will detune very quickly. All of that aside, Wes, Witchita Sam, and the others that have tried to sway you toward geared tuners are right. The ease of use and low cost ($10 to $20 per set) make it a no brainer for most. It all depends on how you view the CBG as an art form. Is it more important to stick to the traditional mode of using found or re-purposed material, or to reach a final product that has all of the features and functionality of a traditional guitar? Somewhere in between perhaps? Thats up to you.
Roger Harris said:

Wes,


The CBG was a gift bought on Ebay. Here are a couple of photos taken BEFORE I clipped the strings. Yes, I think they could be called glorified eyebolts. They are either 3/16" or 1/4"(not sure). Anyway, I would appreciate any suggestions you might have. Also, I know its early in the game but I think I would rather hand-pick rather than use this one as a Slide so can I just reduce the height of the bridge? At the point where the neck meets the box, the vertical distance is about 7/16" I guess my fingers are still weak at this point but that seems a huge distance to press the string to the fretboard. is it?

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on May 10, 2010 at 2:24am

I would still look into using the geared tuners because one of your original problems was the getting it in tune parts. Its very easy to go past the note with the non geared tuner ie: friction peg or eye bolt. But with the geared tuner you have much more control over the string and can get it right on the note easily, like on your friends Takamine guitar. Then its just a matter of playing and having a good time. I have made an eye bolt type tuner, just to say I could and it does work and if made tight stays in tune, but the tuning is a pain, so I only made one.
You could make your work simply by putting a nut on the string side so you can tighten it up against the wood, it looks like there is enough thread available ie: thumb part, string hole, nut, broomstick, wing nut. I hope this makes sense. Good luck with it.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Haugh on May 10, 2010 at 2:43am

i could be way off, but would 'fifth string' banjo tuners work? looking at that picture i can't help but think they'd be perfect... then again, i'm only seeing a tiny piece of the puzzle, here.

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Permalink Reply by jason fitzgibbons on May 10, 2010 at 5:04am

First I would like to say welcome, you have no idea how into this you will most likely become. I actually remember seeing this guitar on ebay. It is a really cool looking guitar. Funny thing, the builder/seller of this instrument had a list of "BEWARE" items that pretty much systematically destroyed all other CBG's on ebay, looks like he forgot to include the beware of thumb screw tuners. I would agree with Wes, the slotted headstock with open geared tuners should solve your problem fairly easily.

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Permalink Reply by Roger Harris on May 10, 2010 at 5:52am

Thanks Michael, I am more concerned more with function than form at this point so I am going to get some geared tuners. I was trying to do it possibly using the current peg holes or enlarging them but alas they are horizontal to the face of the neck so I may try Wes' idea of digging a channel and using violin style pegs. Roger
Michael Gajeski said:

Crow has had some really good luck with friction tuners made with eye bolts. He sets it up so that he has a nut, then a washer, then the neck, then another washer, and finally a wing nut. Before you tune, tighten the wing nut way down so that you can still turn it but with quite a bit of resistance. If you try to get the string tensioned first and THEN tighten the wing nut, the string will detune very quickly.


All of that aside, Wes, Witchita Sam, and the others that have tried to sway you toward geared tuners are right. The ease of use and low cost ($10 to $20 per set) make it a no brainer for most.

It all depends on how you view the CBG as an art form. Is it more important to stick to the traditional mode of using found or re-purposed material, or to reach a final product that has all of the features and functionality of a traditional guitar? Somewhere in between perhaps? Thats up to you.

Roger Harris said:

Wes,


The CBG was a gift bought on Ebay. Here are a couple of photos taken BEFORE I clipped the strings. Yes, I think they could be called glorified eyebolts. They are either 3/16" or 1/4"(not sure). Anyway, I would appreciate any suggestions you might have. Also, I know its early in the game but I think I would rather hand-pick rather than use this one as a Slide so can I just reduce the height of the bridge? At the point where the neck meets the box, the vertical distance is about 7/16" I guess my fingers are still weak at this point but that seems a huge distance to press the string to the fretboard. is it?

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Permalink Reply by Roger Harris on May 10, 2010 at 6:01am

Yes, perfect sense. Thanks Michael. As you suggest, I think I can affect a "fix" using these bolts and with some added hardware but it will still be a *&^*&^%$# to tune.
Sorry, for so many questions, but what you think about maintaining tension on the strings while it is not being played? keeping it in tune, in other words? a waste of time if I am going to practice several times a week?
2) I like the sound of steel strings, so for string gauge would 022", .015 and .010 work? any brand preference?



MichaelS said:

I would still look into using the geared tuners because one of your original problems was the getting it in tune parts. Its very easy to go past the note with the non geared tuner ie: friction peg or eye bolt. But with the geared tuner you have much more control over the string and can get it right on the note easily, like on your friends Takamine guitar. Then its just a matter of playing and having a good time. I have made an eye bolt type tuner, just to say I could and it does work and if made tight stays in tune, but the tuning is a pain, so I only made one.
You could make your work simply by putting a nut on the string side so you can tighten it up against the wood, it looks like there is enough thread available ie: thumb part, string hole, nut, broomstick, wing nut. I hope this makes sense. Good luck with it.

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