Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by THENUGE on January 27, 2010 at 5:15pm

FMIC owns the rectangle , eh...well i got dibs on the circle...i'm gonna make a fortune on this one (insert evil laugh here)

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Permalink Reply by Tim on January 27, 2010 at 5:21pm

fist off i will have to say i love strats i love the double cut body shape well not a prs style but strat style, teles are ok but im not a big fan of single cuts and lp's are just plain ugly to me. that being said as far as fender goes well i have a couple of mim strats form the 90's but wouldnt own any thing with fenders name on it built in the last 10 years quality control just isnt the same even on there MIA stuff i would put my mim strats up agianst a new mia any day of the week. i find the 90's mim stuff to be right up my ally nice comfy neck the pickups are a little hotter than american but not too hot vintage trem (i like both the looks and feel) plus very reasonable when you are buying one i have picked them up for as little as 100 bucks needing a little work. but like i said i wouldnt own a newer one they are junk in my opinion. go with a carvin or G&L oh btw for those of you who want something with Leo's legacy G&L stands for George and Leo. as in George Fullerton and Leo Fender. they put it together shortly after leo sold music man.

as far as all hand made and machine made debate i will take a mixture of both. theres a reason every luthier moves to cnc as soon as they can its just hands down more accurate than hand carving but you still need the human eye and hand to pick the proper woods to set up the machine correctly to finish and fit the end product.

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Permalink Reply by Cigar Box Nation on January 27, 2010 at 5:27pm

The fuckers laid the order on the one guy... Lenny... because he DARED to advertise in a fucking guitar magazine. It was the reason they were alerted to cigar box guitars. You wanna play a Fender Strat? Build your own and deny them your cash. HA HA HA !!!

BITE ME, FENDER.

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

No shit? Jesus, just one more reason to hate. There is nothing so wrong, so absolutely fucked up as a company that produces what are supposed to be musical instruments being run by a bunch of god damned lawyers.

Also, interesting how they don't lay the order on every "custom builder" out there that just copies the strat and tele shapes.

The whole god damned industry is incestuous. Makes me feel dirty.

Shane Speal said:

Fuck Fender. Fender is part of Fender Musical Instruments Corp. which owns Gretsch. Gretsch threw a cease and desist order against Daddy Mojo because FMIC claimed they owned the GODDAMN RECTANGLE SHAPE of the Bo Diddley guitar. They claimed that every fucking cigar box guitar was a violation of their patent. BTW, I saw the patent for the Bo Diddley Guitar...it is so generalized, anything close to rectangle could qualify. A pure piece of shit.

Well, Daddy Mojo contacted his lawyers...and he contacted me. We showed FMIC the deep history of cigar box guitars and how they existed not just before the Bo Diddley patent...but way before Fred Gretsch was a twinkle in his daddy's eye.

Fender can blow me.

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 27, 2010 at 6:31pm

I take back what I said. If I can't make a solid body that Nathan likes more than his Fender, I'll do something else sufficiently humiliating. Them sombitches is never getting any money outta me, though.

Shane Speal said:

The fuckers laid the order on the one guy... Lenny... because he DARED to advertise in a fucking guitar magazine. It was the reason they were alerted to cigar box guitars. You wanna play a Fender Strat? Build your own and deny them your cash. HA HA HA !!!

BITE ME, FENDER.

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

No shit? Jesus, just one more reason to hate. There is nothing so wrong, so absolutely fucked up as a company that produces what are supposed to be musical instruments being run by a bunch of god damned lawyers.

Also, interesting how they don't lay the order on every "custom builder" out there that just copies the strat and tele shapes.

The whole god damned industry is incestuous. Makes me feel dirty.

Shane Speal said:

Fuck Fender. Fender is part of Fender Musical Instruments Corp. which owns Gretsch. Gretsch threw a cease and desist order against Daddy Mojo because FMIC claimed they owned the GODDAMN RECTANGLE SHAPE of the Bo Diddley guitar. They claimed that every fucking cigar box guitar was a violation of their patent. BTW, I saw the patent for the Bo Diddley Guitar...it is so generalized, anything close to rectangle could qualify. A pure piece of shit.

Well, Daddy Mojo contacted his lawyers...and he contacted me. We showed FMIC the deep history of cigar box guitars and how they existed not just before the Bo Diddley patent...but way before Fred Gretsch was a twinkle in his daddy's eye.

Fender can blow me.

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 27, 2010 at 6:57pm

"as far as all hand made and machine made debate i will take a mixture of both. theres a reason every luthier moves to cnc as soon as they can its just hands down more accurate than hand carving but you still need the human eye and hand to pick the proper woods to set up the machine correctly to finish and fit the end product."

The reason they're moving to CNC is because they're relying on guitars to make money. They have to churn them out. The minute you're actually trying to make money you're not in the guitar making business. You're in the marketing business.

Again, this is the exact reason I stopped buying premade necks. There comes a point where pride and control override what you can do just because you have the option to. I could buy premade necks and turn out one guitar every week. But what am I doing at that point? The neck, more than anything, is the most demanding part of building the guitar and gives you the most access to bragging rights when you nail it. Why the hell would I farm something like that out to some manufacturer or machine? Anyone can buy a neck and attach it to a body. Not everyone can carve a neck that people run their hands over and fall in love.

You know what I get to do when I make a guitar? I get to ask customers things like, "How thick do you like your neck?" or "Do you prefer a larger than normal scale?" Being able to provide that kind of attention to detail is what sets us apart from machines.

I have lots of power tools in my shop that I use all the time to save myself time, but when it comes to carving out a neck, it's a spokeshave, files, and chisels. I'd carve the thing out with my fingernails if I could. Anything I could do to get myself closer to the wood is something I'll do. Throwing it into a machine is sacrilege.

Yeah, I'm never going to be able to retire doing this and yeah I'll never make a ton of money by making only 12 to 15 guitars per year, but who gives a shit? The only reason I sell my guitars is so that I can afford to make more and to develop as a guitar maker. Everyone one this site who glues a stick to a cigar box and strings it up is 100 times the luthier than all these fucking blow hard heavy hitters I see thumping their chests every time I turn around. They're trying to get rich. They want your money. This ain't about money. This is about connecting to the parts inside of us that link us to divinity.

I got a brand new guitar from Shane the other day. He made it for me as a trade for a guitar that I made for him last year. It's about the most primitive god damned thing you've ever laid your eyes one and it's worth 10 times more to me than any bullshit PRS with popped grain and overpriced Korean tuners. The reason it's so important to me is because I know the frame of mind that Shane was in when he made it. He agonized over every part of this instrument to make sure it was perfect and he wouldn't send it to me until he was happy with it (and believe me, I waited a long ass time for it - a wait that was worth it). I know, I freaking know, what kind of effort and energy he put into this thing because I did the same when I made him his.

You don't get that out of a CNC machine. With a CNC machine, some guy throws in a piece of wood, clicks a program with his mouse, and then opens up his titty mag to "read the articles". God damn it, haven't you ever heard the phrase, "It's the thought that counts"???

It's a free country, of course, and what I say is about == to dick the minute you turn off your PC. But honestly, if you were going to buy a new guitar what would you prefer? Someone as insane as me who's going to lose sleep over what instrument you eventually end up with or some guy who clicks a mouse button and then clicks his mouse button?

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Permalink Reply by colin mcgrath on January 27, 2010 at 7:42pm

A...FUCKN...men josh, I have loved reading all of these posts on this discussion. And even if I forget everything you've wrote after leaving the internet, I still will believe it myself and agree next time I read/hear it. It is way disappointing to hear about the lawsuit that kind of arrogance pisses me off. I am not and will not become a fender supporter. I would rather play a colin mcgrath brand 3 string.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Lanford on January 27, 2010 at 7:45pm

All you guitar snobs (CBG, Brand X - Don't matter to me) need to get a grip -As was quoted earlier -

Much as I love talking, and as much as I love talking about guitars, I'd rather follow Frank's advice anyday: Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar!

I've got some of them all - expensive collectors items, piece of shit department store guitars from the 50's/60's, modern day $50 Walmart specials, and yes, quite a few CBG's I've built myself entirely by hand. The sound that's comes out of them is what is eventually the only important thing. And that sound is up to you - not the origin of the instrument or the "love that's put into it" when it's created or not.

It's the love that you as the player put into it, and the dedication it takes to become a better musician, that is the only important thing in the long run. The right player can make that cheap piece of crap, made without love guitar, sound like a million bucks and the vice versa is equally true (and a lot more common).

My 2 cents - take it or leave it

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Permalink Reply by Alan Eisenberg on January 27, 2010 at 8:07pm

I agree with you Nathan. But they are not the be all, end all of stringed instruments. I love my Gretsch. I dig the Tele I built. And CBG's stand apart from them for all of the right reasons. 8-)

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Permalink Reply by colin mcgrath on January 27, 2010 at 8:35pm

Since I am bored and like a discussion I will say that I am a snob. There are things I will not do or stores I will not buy from, some for logical reasons other than snobbery. I do agree with you on a whole tom. Personally I do not like fenders (mostly the way they look). And honestly I am a cheap-skate, hince the attraction to building cigar box guitars. Also I just liked joining in because I love to give the bird to out of control corperations.

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 27, 2010 at 9:01pm

Ah, well. Nobody's perfect.

But since your CBGs are absolutely beautiful, I'll overlook it just this once :)

Tom Lanford said:

All you guitar snobs (CBG, Brand X - Don't matter to me) need to get a grip -As was quoted earlier -

Much as I love talking, and as much as I love talking about guitars, I'd rather follow Frank's advice anyday: Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar!

I've got some of them all - expensive collectors items, piece of shit department store guitars from the 50's/60's, modern day $50 Walmart specials, and yes, quite a few CBG's I've built myself entirely by hand. The sound that's comes out of them is what is eventually the only important thing. And that sound is up to you - not the origin of the instrument or the "love that's put into it" when it's created or not.

It's the love that you as the player put into it, and the dedication it takes to become a better musician, that is the only important thing in the long run. The right player can make that cheap piece of crap, made without love guitar, sound like a million bucks and the vice versa is equally true (and a lot more common).

My 2 cents - take it or leave it

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Permalink Reply by John C Predmore on January 27, 2010 at 10:46pm

This makes my day. I love it when the big corperations and thier lawyers get stomped.

Shane Speal said:

btw, FMIC backed down after Daddy Mojo bitch slapped them to the floor.

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Permalink Reply by Roosterman on January 27, 2010 at 11:20pm

Ineteresting stuff :o) I sure didnt know the Daddy Mojo story. Pity he couldnt turn it round and sue their asses for something lol

For me this debate is simples.

Anything you can make music on can be deemed to be an instrument, made by hand, machine, or accident.

I just hate strats. Always will. Horrible little guitars....

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