Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 1, 2009 at 10:53am

Thanks for your help. I really am looking forward to my next go-round. I don't give up easily which is why I think I can build these things successfully. We'll see, I will keep working at it.

Wichita Sam said:

Ok.... problem easy to diagnose with the pic.... fix is up to you...

When you set the neck (under) the box lid without reliefing (at least) the lid's thickness, you created a situation where any bridge height would create huge string height over the neck (worse the closer it gets).

This is a design problem that can be handled one of two ways.

1) Either relief the neck under the box (at least) the lids thickness (although most players prefer more distance between the string and the box top without sacrificing string action cause by raising the bridge height). If you look at many electric guitars, the neck will be significantly above the level of the guitars body. (You can brace the neck in the body with a piece glued to its length under the neck)

2) or, add a seperate fretboard to the top of the neck that is (at least) the thickness of the neck. This solution allows you to work the fretboard seperately and usually doesn't require additional brace of the neck under the box top.

I prefer to work with thicker than standard necks made by vertically laminating necks to a thickness of 1- 1 1/4 inches thus I can recess, not only for the thickness of the top and some additional height above the top, but I can also recess a space under the neck to all the top to vibrate freely. There is some differing points of view about whether or not this is helpful, but (especially) on acoustic CBGs I like to do it that way.

hope this helps,

the best,
Wichita Sam


Travis Woodall said:

Here are a few pics. Not sure if you can tell much. the box top is about a 1/4" thick and that is causing some of my action problems. The intonation is the thing I can't figure out.

Travis Woodall said:

No, it's glued to the inside of the top. I will shoot some pics to you.

Wichita Sam said:

post a pic if you want a diagnosis.... neck glue to the top? ala dulcimer?

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:

yeah, I just finished my first one and was devastated when I strung it up. The action and intonation are off to where it is pretty much unplayable. Tuned it to a D-G-B-E to begin with and the intonation from open to the 12 fret on the D is off about a 1/4 of a step but the G is almost dead on, then the B is off like the D and the E is almost dead on. The other thing that I have a problem with is the action. In open position it sounds and feels great but the box I used has a beveled top. While the neck is glued flat to the top, the bevel causes the strings to be raised and the action is about 3/4" off the fretboard at the 9th fret. any ideas?? I did some things really well on this guitar and am pleased with how it looked, but I have some issues to work out. any help would be greatly appreciated.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 3, 2009 at 1:26pm

Mark- Got a Cohiba box today. After your comment though, I'm scared to "practice" on it. I have only built one CBG and it was not without issues. I have a few other boxes too so i will likely use those to attempt to perfect my craft first. I am excited about the Cohiba though.

Mark Werner said:

It's not an exact science, IMHO. I have a very nice Cohiba box I used for my mandola, and it sounds great. Those Cohiba jobs are like furniture; solid cedar, carefully put together, mortised joints...

However, the second guitar I built, made out of a pressboard box and a through-the-body design....Had great acoustic tone. Go figure.
I think in general Josh is quite right, a bigger box is going to move more air. Thinner material for the top is going to vibrate more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on November 3, 2009 at 2:06pm

If you're scared, go get a cheap Punch or Artro Fuente box. They should be no more than $2-$5

Travis Woodall said:

Mark- Got a Cohiba box today. After your comment though, I'm scared to "practice" on it. I have only built one CBG and it was not without issues. I have a few other boxes too so i will likely use those to attempt to perfect my craft first. I am excited about the Cohiba though.

Mark Werner said:

It's not an exact science, IMHO. I have a very nice Cohiba box I used for my mandola, and it sounds great. Those Cohiba jobs are like furniture; solid cedar, carefully put together, mortised joints...

However, the second guitar I built, made out of a pressboard box and a through-the-body design....Had great acoustic tone. Go figure.
I think in general Josh is quite right, a bigger box is going to move more air. Thinner material for the top is going to vibrate more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on November 3, 2009 at 2:33pm

Use what ever box speaks to you... Don't be afraid to mess up. There will always be another box....
If you let people know what you're doing, before long you will have more boxes that you will ever build.

the best,

Wichita Sam

Travis Woodall said:

Mark- Got a Cohiba box today. After your comment though, I'm scared to "practice" on it. I have only built one CBG and it was not without issues. I have a few other boxes too so i will likely use those to attempt to perfect my craft first. I am excited about the Cohiba though.

Mark Werner said:

It's not an exact science, IMHO. I have a very nice Cohiba box I used for my mandola, and it sounds great. Those Cohiba jobs are like furniture; solid cedar, carefully put together, mortised joints...

However, the second guitar I built, made out of a pressboard box and a through-the-body design....Had great acoustic tone. Go figure.
I think in general Josh is quite right, a bigger box is going to move more air. Thinner material for the top is going to vibrate more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 3, 2009 at 2:37pm

I picked up several boxes. the one I am interested in working with next is a Saint Luis Rey. It is deep and made of thick, sturdy walls. Given the sturdy nature of the box, is a neck that goes all the way through really necessary?? Or can I just brace it at the point at which it would enter the box?? Just thought having an empty cavity would maximize the sound. What do you think?? Also, noticed you are in Simpsonville. Although I live in Johnson City, TN my company is in Joanna, SC. My boss actually is from Simpsonville. It's a small world. Don't worry, I'm not weird or anything...LOL.

Wes Yates said:

If you're scared, go get a cheap Punch or Artro Fuente box. They should be no more than $2-$5

Travis Woodall said:

Mark- Got a Cohiba box today. After your comment though, I'm scared to "practice" on it. I have only built one CBG and it was not without issues. I have a few other boxes too so i will likely use those to attempt to perfect my craft first. I am excited about the Cohiba though.

Mark Werner said:

It's not an exact science, IMHO. I have a very nice Cohiba box I used for my mandola, and it sounds great. Those Cohiba jobs are like furniture; solid cedar, carefully put together, mortised joints...

However, the second guitar I built, made out of a pressboard box and a through-the-body design....Had great acoustic tone. Go figure.
I think in general Josh is quite right, a bigger box is going to move more air. Thinner material for the top is going to vibrate more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 3, 2009 at 2:54pm

Thanks Sam! Any suggestions on my last comment?? Just not sure if I need to run the neck all the way through the box. This box is pretty beefy. Walls are about 3/8" thick.

Wichita Sam said:

Use what ever box speaks to you... Don't be afraid to mess up. There will always be another box....
If you let people know what you're doing, before long you will have more boxes that you will ever build.

the best,

Wichita Sam

Travis Woodall said:

Mark- Got a Cohiba box today. After your comment though, I'm scared to "practice" on it. I have only built one CBG and it was not without issues. I have a few other boxes too so i will likely use those to attempt to perfect my craft first. I am excited about the Cohiba though.

Mark Werner said:

It's not an exact science, IMHO. I have a very nice Cohiba box I used for my mandola, and it sounds great. Those Cohiba jobs are like furniture; solid cedar, carefully put together, mortised joints...

However, the second guitar I built, made out of a pressboard box and a through-the-body design....Had great acoustic tone. Go figure.
I think in general Josh is quite right, a bigger box is going to move more air. Thinner material for the top is going to vibrate more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on November 3, 2009 at 3:06pm

I kinda like boxes with about 1/8-1/4" walls. too thick and it masks the sound.

All in all, make one out of this box. What the heck. Like Sam says, there will always be another box.

-Wes

Travis Woodall said:

I picked up several boxes. the one I am interested in working with next is a Saint Luis Rey. It is deep and made of thick, sturdy walls. Given the sturdy nature of the box, is a neck that goes all the way through really necessary?? Or can I just brace it at the point at which it would enter the box?? Just thought having an empty cavity would maximize the sound. What do you think?? Also, noticed you are in Simpsonville. Although I live in Johnson City, TN my company is in Joanna, SC. My boss actually is from Simpsonville. It's a small world. Don't worry, I'm not weird or anything...LOL.

Wes Yates said:

If you're scared, go get a cheap Punch or Artro Fuente box. They should be no more than $2-$5

Travis Woodall said:

Mark- Got a Cohiba box today. After your comment though, I'm scared to "practice" on it. I have only built one CBG and it was not without issues. I have a few other boxes too so i will likely use those to attempt to perfect my craft first. I am excited about the Cohiba though.

Mark Werner said:

It's not an exact science, IMHO. I have a very nice Cohiba box I used for my mandola, and it sounds great. Those Cohiba jobs are like furniture; solid cedar, carefully put together, mortised joints...

However, the second guitar I built, made out of a pressboard box and a through-the-body design....Had great acoustic tone. Go figure.
I think in general Josh is quite right, a bigger box is going to move more air. Thinner material for the top is going to vibrate more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 3, 2009 at 3:14pm

I agree. it's all a learning process. It might sound great with a pickup in it, who knows??

Wes Yates said:

I kinda like boxes with about 1/8-1/4" walls. too thick and it masks the sound.

All in all, make one out of this box. What the heck. Like Sam says, there will always be another box.

-Wes

Travis Woodall said:

I picked up several boxes. the one I am interested in working with next is a Saint Luis Rey. It is deep and made of thick, sturdy walls. Given the sturdy nature of the box, is a neck that goes all the way through really necessary?? Or can I just brace it at the point at which it would enter the box?? Just thought having an empty cavity would maximize the sound. What do you think?? Also, noticed you are in Simpsonville. Although I live in Johnson City, TN my company is in Joanna, SC. My boss actually is from Simpsonville. It's a small world. Don't worry, I'm not weird or anything...LOL.

Wes Yates said:

If you're scared, go get a cheap Punch or Artro Fuente box. They should be no more than $2-$5

Travis Woodall said:

Mark- Got a Cohiba box today. After your comment though, I'm scared to "practice" on it. I have only built one CBG and it was not without issues. I have a few other boxes too so i will likely use those to attempt to perfect my craft first. I am excited about the Cohiba though.

Mark Werner said:

It's not an exact science, IMHO. I have a very nice Cohiba box I used for my mandola, and it sounds great. Those Cohiba jobs are like furniture; solid cedar, carefully put together, mortised joints...

However, the second guitar I built, made out of a pressboard box and a through-the-body design....Had great acoustic tone. Go figure.
I think in general Josh is quite right, a bigger box is going to move more air. Thinner material for the top is going to vibrate more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on November 3, 2009 at 3:28pm

Neck thru is an easy way to be sure you have everything line up. If you do a bolt up, glue on or fender pocket style neck, you will have a lot of added worries.... strength, alignment, neck angle etc. IF you are up for it fine, not all about box strength....

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:

Thanks Sam! Any suggestions on my last comment?? Just not sure if I need to run the neck all the way through the box. This box is pretty beefy. Walls are about 3/8" thick.

Wichita Sam said:

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Travis "SlackJack" Woodall on November 3, 2009 at 3:33pm

thanks, good things to consider. If I recess the neck under the top instead of gluing the neck to the top I would think that would help with the sound (vibration of the top). I will most likely try that method. The last one I did I just glued the top to the neck.

Wichita Sam said:

Neck thru is an easy way to be sure you have everything line up. If you do a bolt up, glue on or fender pocket style neck, you will have a lot of added worries.... strength, alignment, neck angle etc. IF you are up for it fine, not all about box strength....

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:

Thanks Sam! Any suggestions on my last comment?? Just not sure if I need to run the neck all the way through the box. This box is pretty beefy. Walls are about 3/8" thick.

Wichita Sam said:

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tom Manno on November 13, 2009 at 5:36am

Travis - on the concern of intonation, the 12th fret will be exactly halfway between the bridge and the nut. I see you have frets on there, but if you're not able to make the necessary adjustments to make it a "frettable" guitar, you can always make it a slide-only guitar. So far I've just built a few sliders, I love em. Eventually I'll make one fretted, but that's a whole new ballgame it seems, and I don't have a lot of high-tech tools. There are fret calculators out there, you can find links to them on here or use good ole' Google to find one.

Travis Woodall said:

thanks, good things to consider. If I recess the neck under the top instead of gluing the neck to the top I would think that would help with the sound (vibration of the top). I will most likely try that method. The last one I did I just glued the top to the neck.

Wichita Sam said:

Neck thru is an easy way to be sure you have everything line up. If you do a bolt up, glue on or fender pocket style neck, you will have a lot of added worries.... strength, alignment, neck angle etc. IF you are up for it fine, not all about box strength....

the best,

Sam

Travis Woodall said:

Thanks Sam! Any suggestions on my last comment?? Just not sure if I need to run the neck all the way through the box. This box is pretty beefy. Walls are about 3/8" thick.

Wichita Sam said:

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Chris Carlson on June 7, 2013 at 12:43pm

I've heard the Cohiba and padron are good sounding boxes - but yet to use one? The bigger the better the tighter the sweater!

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