Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom on November 4, 2010 at 6:29am

Now thats what I am talking about. INTERACTIVE DISCUSSION.

YES, the guys that know the stuff are talking back and forth expressing and such,
and along the way something else happens.

The rest of us get an education !

Ya, most of it I dont understand yet ( maybe never will ) but there's stuff said that clings to the gray matter sometimes and makes me say, .... WOW so that's how it is !

I am sure from all the newbs out there and the not so newbie's...... THANK YOU

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 4, 2010 at 11:07am

Yes Keni, I must give that mini-Spanish a try sometime.
Also your 3 string chords on your Youtube vid have been helpful. That's mini-Spanish too I think.


Keni Lee Burgess said:

Thank you for sharing this information. Basically there are many configurations of tones 1,3,5 (3 major scale tones) that yields a system of movable chords. I prefer a standard spanish tuning configuration Dgbd / 5135 (See CD 5) A mini version of the full six string DGDgbd / 515135 (See CD 2)
You can certainly use GDgd (1515), but there is no third in the tuning. Actucally, this is a variation (different key) of the bass part of open C tuning (CGCgce / 151513)
Using GDgd tuning you can retune ADf#d (5135). Now you are in Spanish tuning, but instead of the common key of G you are in D.
I use 151 /GDG tuning on my three string (see CD 4), but this could easily be extended to 4 string by adding the d (GDgd)
There is a clear logic behind these approaches. GDB, GBD, DGB, DBG, BGD, BDG offer a wide variety of possibilities in the key of G! Enjoy your practice.

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on November 4, 2010 at 12:42pm

Thank you for your response. My Devil tuning video with the 3 note chords is ADF# / 513. It is an alternate tuning from GDG /151 (CD4). I use strings ADG from a medium pack of standard strings. Enjoy.


Glenn Reither said:

Yes Keni, I must give that mini-Spanish a try sometime.
Also your 3 string chords on your Youtube vid have been helpful. That's mini-Spanish too I think.


Keni Lee Burgess said:

Thank you for sharing this information. Basically there are many configurations of tones 1,3,5 (3 major scale tones) that yields a system of movable chords. I prefer a standard spanish tuning configuration Dgbd / 5135 (See CD 5) A mini version of the full six string DGDgbd / 515135 (See CD 2)
You can certainly use GDgd (1515), but there is no third in the tuning. Actucally, this is a variation (different key) of the bass part of open C tuning (CGCgce / 151513)
Using GDgd tuning you can retune ADf#d (5135). Now you are in Spanish tuning, but instead of the common key of G you are in D.
I use 151 /GDG tuning on my three string (see CD 4), but this could easily be extended to 4 string by adding the d (GDgd)
There is a clear logic behind these approaches. GDB, GBD, DGB, DBG, BGD, BDG offer a wide variety of possibilities in the key of G! Enjoy your practice.

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 4, 2010 at 3:58pm

Also if you haven't seen it already, you MUST check out One F's insane fret system on his Mundfick guitar. It's the most ingenious fret layout you'll ever see.
http://www.handmademusicclubhouse.com/photo/mundfick-1-finger-chord...

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Permalink Reply by Tom on November 5, 2010 at 5:05pm

Ok, I am hooked, and have a question.
I see a lot of stuff written that goes, I use the 1,3,5 (3 major scale tones)
the Dgbd / 5135 .......... the DGDgbd / 515135 .... the GDgd (1515) the CGCgce / 151513
and the ADf#d 5135, the 151 /GDG and on and on and on. You get my drift right ?

I can figure out when I see a abcd or what ever that we are talking about a 4 string instrument, and when I see a abc it is a 3 string instrument we are talking about and mean that string tuned open to that tone right, but what the heck is the 151 or 5135 or the 135 and all that stuff mean.
Keep in mind now if I am asking this I must not be too sharp on this stuff, so go easy on me here.

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 5, 2010 at 7:45pm

A lot of stuff to go into here, Tom. I would suggest a music theory lesson if you want to get a fuller understanding of harmony and how we describe notes in a chord in refernce to degrees of the scale and why. Here's a very scant crash course.

G major scale (using upper case and lower case to differentiate between octaves):

G A B c d e f# g
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 octave

The root major chord (the chord built on the first note of the scale) is 1, 3, 5 of the major scale.

If someone is tuning their gat 1,3,5 then it is playing a major chord strummed all strings open.
In G that would be G B d.

You're close to getting it. If you look at the scale above and the numbers you will see the answers to the questions you asked.
Dgbd / 5135 .......... the DGDgbd / 515135 .... the GDgd (1515) the CGCgce / 151513
and the ADf#d 5135, the 151 /GDG

Having D on the low string doesn't stop it being G major. It's just an inversion.

ADf#d 5135* doesn't match the numbers I laid out above because it is a D major tuning, not G major. But check it against the D major scale below.

D E F# G A B c# d
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 oct

* 5135 would actually be ADf#a. ADf#d is 5131.

1,5,1 and 1,5,1,5 are neither major nor minor because it is the 3 which defines that. So they are open 5th chords, in rock they are called "power chords" because they sound good thru distortion while fuller chords get a bit overdone.

Hope that gets you started on an exploration of harmonic theory. One harmony geek wrote a LONG heavy book on the subject of why C major scale should have a F# rather than F natural. It's a great bedtime read if you are suffering insomnia.

In my charts you'll see some 9ths. That is just like a 2, but up the octave. 9ths also imply the presence of a 7th. That's why some of my diagrams use the "add2" instead because they don't have a 7th in them. Often "add2" means there is no 3rd either.

G7 would be G B d f (note the f is a semitone lower than the f# from the G major scale)
Gmaj7 is G B d #f
G9 would be G B d f a
Gmaj9 would be G B d f# a

11ths are 4ths up an octave. A #11 is the 11 raised one semitone. Again, 11ths imply the presence of a b7th and maybe a 9th. You wont usually see a chord called ?4th - that's called sus. sus is short for suspended. The 4th sounds like it wants to fall to the 3, hence suspended.

Bet you can work out what a G13 chord would be now, remembering I didn't call it Gmaj13.

Yeah...the rabbit hole has no bottom to it.




Tom said:

Ok, I am hooked, and have a question.
I see a lot of stuff written that goes, I use the 1,3,5 (3 major scale tones)
the Dgbd / 5135 .......... the DGDgbd / 515135 .... the GDgd (1515) the CGCgce / 151513
and the ADf#d 5135, the 151 /GDG and on and on and on. You get my drift right ?

I can figure out when I see a abcd or what ever that we are talking about a 4 string instrument, and when I see a abc it is a 3 string instrument we are talking about and mean that string tuned open to that tone right, but what the heck is the 151 or 5135 or the 135 and all that stuff mean.
Keep in mind now if I am asking this I must not be too sharp on this stuff, so go easy on me here.

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on November 5, 2010 at 10:27pm

Tom.

:)
if u look carefully at Glenn's recipes for chords directly above, u will observe they are essentially made from alternate notes from the scale. G,B,D,F, etc etc. Ignore the sharps, flats etc for a minute and just look at the letters and u will see he is skipping the alternate ones over. Whether a particular note is sharped or flatted depends on the scale u are working with at the moment.

Take a look at this video and get urself a strummer and a capo dude. If u are disciplined about your studies there is several years worth of material right there.


Find more videos like this on Handmade Music Clubhouse
BTW if theres 3 guys in this entire community who have really studied their music, Reither, KLB and I are probly it. These guys really do know their shit. ...

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 5, 2010 at 10:45pm

I really like One F's tutes. I bet his gat students dig him. Onya Jef! You've convinced me, I'll build a strummer when I get back next year.



Jef Long said:

Tom.

:)
if u look carefully at Glenn's recipes for chords directly above, u will observe they are essentially made from alternate notes from the scale. G,B,D,F, etc etc. Ignore the sharps, flats etc for a minute and just look at the letters and u will see he is skipping the alternate ones over. Whether a particular note is sharped or flatted depends on the scale u are working with at the moment.

Take a look at this video and get urself a strummer and a capo dude. If u are disciplined about your studies there is several years worth of material right there.


Find more videos like this on Handmade Music Clubhouse
BTW if theres 3 guys in this entire community who have really studied their music, Reither, KLB and I are probly it. These guys really do know their shit. ...

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on November 5, 2010 at 11:08pm

Hello Tom,
Glenn did a nice job presenting an introduction to theory. Basically, it is all about relativity. If you look at the pictures on my page you will find a chart for all 13 keys of music. Each key is made of 8 notes. Most people know these notes when they are sung: do, re, mi, fa, so, la , ti do These are tones 1-8. Regarding open tuning, commonon keys are D and E, G and A, and C. This is mainly due to the fact you can tune a standard strung and tuned guitar EADGBE and tune to these keys. Please consider purchasing one of my instructional CDs (www.ebay.com / search: keni lee) I cover this material and show you how I practically apply it in the creation of my renditions of classic blues. Please feel free to ask further questions. Enjoy.


Tom said:

Ok, I am hooked, and have a question.
I see a lot of stuff written that goes, I use the 1,3,5 (3 major scale tones)
the Dgbd / 5135 .......... the DGDgbd / 515135 .... the GDgd (1515) the CGCgce / 151513
and the ADf#d 5135, the 151 /GDG and on and on and on. You get my drift right ?

I can figure out when I see a abcd or what ever that we are talking about a 4 string instrument, and when I see a abc it is a 3 string instrument we are talking about and mean that string tuned open to that tone right, but what the heck is the 151 or 5135 or the 135 and all that stuff mean.
Keep in mind now if I am asking this I must not be too sharp on this stuff, so go easy on me here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on November 6, 2010 at 12:22am

Glenn Reither said:

I really like One F's tutes. I bet his gat students dig him. Onya Jef! You've convinced me, I'll build a strummer when I get back next year.

thanks for the kind words blind g, u know im a fan. im doing a batch of wee tin diddy strummers week after next to use up some crappy little tins, one has ur name on it. :)

Tom... Keni Lee is spot on about the relativity business.. A,B,C# etc etc is a necessary way to communicate with other musicians, U need to all get on the same page. But for ur own thinking as u play a i,ii,iii,iv paradigm is actually WAAAY smarter and will get u understanding the music a lot better and quicker. U may have heard or be aware that a single piece of music could be performed in different keys? Perhaps when u work with a vocalist particularly, u may need to 'transpose' a piece down or up a couple of keys. So where the chart says G, u may be playing F, where it says A, ur moving it to G on the fly. The reason this works is the i,ii,iii values remain consistent, so the particular piece of music says the same things..

Given that ur typical cbg is made to be played in one key most of the time, especially by beginners it is more convenient and sensible to use the roman numeral paradigm to name the notes, something I will demonstrate in a coming video when we track down some chords to a tune from the internet and adapt it to our 3 string cbg.

good luck with it

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Permalink Reply by Glenn Reither on November 6, 2010 at 1:18am

Oooh a biscuit tin strummer with the signature goofy fret??? Worth coming home for! I'll grab you a couple of sweet boxes in the Caribbean!

You speak the truth, Kimosabe. Getting into the habit of calling chords by their Roman numeral is a good thing, although it get's kinda complicated in music that modulates. For instance, there'd be some Billy Joel stuff that would be a challenge to write in Roman numerals and keep the musical thread clear. But if there aren't heavy modulations, I think of chords by number, not note. We used a movable root system in my ear training so what was V at the start of the tune might become ii (or whatever) later on. We got so we could sight-sing atonal stuff. Which, believe it or not, was not as much fun as talking to girls.

I've noticed quite a few pro guys use Roman numerals, especially in jazz circles.

Anyhoo, it's steel drums for the next 4 months.


Jef Long said:

Glenn Reither said:

I really like One F's tutes. I bet his gat students dig him. Onya Jef! You've convinced me, I'll build a strummer when I get back next year.

thanks for the kind words blind g, u know im a fan. im doing a batch of wee tin diddy strummers week after next to use up some crappy little tins, one has ur name on it. :)

Tom... Keni Lee is spot on about the relativity business.. A,B,C# etc etc is a necessary way to communicate with other musicians, U need to all get on the same page. But for ur own thinking as u play a i,ii,iii,iv paradigm is actually WAAAY smarter and will get u understanding the music a lot better and quicker. U may have heard or be aware that a single piece of music could be performed in different keys? Perhaps when u work with a vocalist particularly, u may need to 'transpose' a piece down or up a couple of keys. So where the chart says G, u may be playing F, where it says A, ur moving it to G on the fly. The reason this works is the i,ii,iii values remain consistent, so the particular piece of music says the same things..

Given that ur typical cbg is made to be played in one key most of the time, especially by beginners it is more convenient and sensible to use the roman numeral paradigm to name the notes, something I will demonstrate in a coming video when we track down some chords to a tune from the internet and adapt it to our 3 string cbg.

good luck with it

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on November 6, 2010 at 11:30am

Hello Glenn,
I did not intend to make my replies too technical. I just can't help myself when taking about the possibilities. Strum sticks with their diatonic scales make CBG easier to play. The fretted notes are all good notes for the tuning of the instrument. You can basically use your ear and find melodies. Basically strum sticks are dulcimers, but instead of on your lap you play them like a guitar. I am quite sure if you google, you will come across instructional material. Thank you for the discussion. Sorry for any confusion. Enjoy

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