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Building two Identical 3-string CBGs at once...... Both have the same buzzing problem....... ARGGGGGGGGGG!

I am in the process of building two identical guitars at the same time (3-stringers and FRETLESS). I figured at least one would turn out for me. Actually both of them being identical look decent and the process went pretty good. I am now at the stage of stringing and tuning them. They both have the same problem and that is that they both strum nice and clean at the open chord but when I fret anywhere on the fretboard they buzz horribly (a twangy buzz not a rattle). NOT A LITTLE... A LOT. I do play the guitar so I know a little about where to look for buzzes. This buzz is huge. The three tuners are new and tight. None of the strings are anywhere close to the fretboard anywhere. I can raise the nut and the saddle so high that I can't play it and it still buzzes when I fret. My novice thinking is that the buzzing must have to do with the box itself. I purchased both boxes from a hobby store and they feel really solid but have the usually two clasps and two hinges on the opposite side. On each corner of the box is an ornamental piece of thin metal that is tacked down. I originally thought that they might be rattling but when I lacquered the final finish I pretty much cemented them down so they aren't moving.. I don't think. The other area that I thought might be making the buzzing is that I glued a 1/4" strip of red cedar (fretboard) onto the neck which is 1" x 2" red cedar and that all seems fine but I cut the 1/4" fretboard right at the junction of the body and the neck. In other words, the fretboard does not overlap onto the body. I don't know if this gap area could cause buzzing..... So a long story short.... Does extreme buzzing at every fret sound like a common mistake in building a CBG that a beginner like myself would make? Bad boxes? Maybe fretless CBGs buzz all the time?? Tried tons of strings of all different sizes and gauges. Tried all different nut and saddle heights. It plays fantastic at open chord.... just don't fret it or it buzzes.... It's a twangy buzz, if that means anything

Any common mistakes that new builders run into when they build their first one (or two) that usually creates lots of buzzing? Any thoughts good or bad appreciate. Looks like I might some good firewood for this upcoming winter

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Permalink Reply by colin mcgrath on May 24, 2011 at 2:03pm

I have had trouble with the fretboard not being flat. I have found that even a slight imperfection can cause a "buzz" type of sound. Did you set a flat level or thick ruler on the fretboard to check for warp? I have heard that fretless need damn near perfect flatness.

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on May 24, 2011 at 2:26pm

Hi Molinee,

I have not had a problem with buzzing at every fret, but I have had buzzing problems related to the nut. In fact, these days I usually use a fret 0 instead of a nut, and follow that by a cut bolt (the later used more as a 'string tree' to guide the strings to the tuning machines). That combination usually works fine for me.

On another build which I built this past spring (its already deep summer here in southern China) I had a problem where the increasing humidity of the approaching summer caused the fretboard to expand lengthwise, impacting the sound box and that pushed the the end of the fretboard upward ever so slightly causing buzzing (at first) and later, the highest pitched fret became higher (off the neck) than the preceding two and I found I could not successfully fret them. So, I had to cut about 1/16" off the end of the fretboard (after removing the strings) and once I restrung it the problem (including the buzz I initially had) went away.

Keep asking around. I'm sure other builders have had buzzing problems with a variety of different solutions. One is bound to cure your problem.

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on May 24, 2011 at 2:37pm

Hi again.

I re-read your post and I realize now that you have a fretless instrument. So, what you mean is that no matter where you stop the string along the fretless neck, you are getting buzzing.

Hmmm... I don't build fretless. However, I have built several CBGs using electrician's tie wraps (thinnest variety) and found that they work pretty well, but dampen the sound somewhat. Perhaps as an experiment, you could try adding frets and see if that solves the problem. Otherwise, keep asking around...

-Rand.

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Permalink Reply by Skeesix on May 24, 2011 at 5:06pm

Hmmm....doesn't buzz with open strings, but does buzz when you fret it. I think that would rule out loose parts.

Does the buzz clear when you press down on the strings above the nut? If that's the case, you need to install a string tree.

Try fretting all the way up and down the fingerboard and see if the buzz clears at any point along the fingerboard. The area where the buzz clears is a high point which would need to be lowered.

Another area to check would be the nut and bridge slots. They should be angled not flat. I will attach a pic.

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Permalink Reply by molinee on May 24, 2011 at 6:58pm

Thanks to All for all of your great ideas and suggestions. I applied every idea with no success. Here is what I now know:

The fretboard is flat.

The buzz does not clear anywhere on the fretboard going all the way up and down.

When checking for nut and bridge break angle and pressing down above them the buzzing continues. Only the pitch changes.

For the nut and bridge I have tried smooth bolts, threaded bolts, nails.... All different sizes and diameters. The buzzing does not differ with any of them.

Any more suggestions are certainly welcome... Kind of hate to pitch these two but I may have to if my patience wears out. Then I will try one out of a real wood cigar box and run the fretboard onto the top of the body...... but still holding out for a miracle.

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Permalink Reply by The Professor on May 24, 2011 at 7:23pm

Hi Molinee,

Do you get the buzz when you use a slide? I have a few fretless that do buzz when finger plucked but not so when i use a bottleneck.

Andy

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Permalink Reply by molinee on May 24, 2011 at 8:38pm

It's hard to say since I am a crappy slide player. My slide playing makes my dog run away.

Andrew Leonard said:

Hi Molinee,

Do you get the buzz when you use a slide? I have a few fretless that do buzz when finger plucked but not so when i use a bottleneck.

Andy

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Permalink Reply by Chris Tinker on May 24, 2011 at 9:00pm

It's not the clasps or some other hardware on the body is it? I sometimes get buzzing from loose fitting clasps or hinges, I just pin them down with something soft like blu tack.

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Permalink Reply by David L. on May 24, 2011 at 9:51pm

Hi Molinee

Have you tried using a capo at different fret positions just to exclude how you are playing as a cause (no insult intended but without the fret wire it must be harder to get a nice crisp note)?

Also any chance of some pictures of the bridge area - The nut end to my way of thinking must be fine as the problem is gone with open chords.

I hope you get it sorted it looks like a nice CBG.

David

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on May 24, 2011 at 11:49pm

By looking at your pics , it looks like you have a very low action. Low string height over the fb can cause buzzing.

Here's two things to try.

1- try fretting with just your fingernails. (Old school fretless banjo trick)

2- temporary fret. place a nail , toothpick , screwdriver, whatever on the fretboard as a fret and fret behind it just like a real fret. Also fret on the other side and pluck the string ..... it'll help tell if it's a nut or bridge problem.

One other possibility .... more common than people will admit ... it technique. You have to have a real clean fretting technique to give clean notes.

One more thought. Measure string height at the nut and at the box end of the fretboard .....you could have negative relief causing the problem. ( neck angled back from the body)

AFKAM

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Permalink Reply by mark "mudcat" quigley on May 25, 2011 at 1:35am

can'tv view pics but i had this prob once. trimmed the length of my strings after wrapping on tuners. left it untrimmed and it was the loose ends vibrating when played

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Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on May 25, 2011 at 2:22am

How is your neck attached to the box? I see there is a pretty big gap in the neck pocket you cut. Does the neck fit tight on the sides? Check to see if you have any contact between the neck and soundboard.