#1 resource for Cigar Box Guitars, Free Plans, How-To, Parts & More!

Let's Explore Paper Mache Sound Boxes...

Hi All.

Back in 1862, the renowned Spanish luthier Antonio Torres Jurado ("Torres") built an experimental paper mache guitar to prove that it is the top (soundboard), and not the back and sides of the guitar that gave the instrument its sound. Since that time, several other folks have built them. I have even used paper mache (and chicken wire) as a kid to build a dinosaur and a moose head for an art class, and more recently a couple of Halloween masks. It seems like all I need is a guitar head, neck, and a soundboard, and the rest of the sound box can be made of either cardboard and paper mache, or perhaps chicken wire and paper mache.

There remains some doubt as to whether paper mache sound boxes can project sound as well as wooden boxes, so if they turn out to make poor acoustic instruments (volume wise), we should still be able to electrify them with a piezo or magnetic pickup or two. We also can try building one with a resonator cone to see if that could improve sound projection.

If you think about it, paper mache offers so many design shape possibilities that it seems like a natural choice for inventive instrument builders like those who participate in this website.

I can already foresee Steam Punk Paper Mache guitars.

[Photo from Wikipedia]

So, I'll begin my research and what useful information I find, I'll post it here. If you have any additional information, comments or ideas, let's hear them. At some point in the (fairly) near future, I will attempt to build one, and hopefully a few other folks will build their own and we can compare results. With a few generations of paper mache builds, we may see such things as fiber glass coated paper mache or some other innovations that could yield a new building technology for home made instruments.

I.) Information on the Original Paper Mache Guitar Built by Antonio Torres Jurado ("Torres")

1.) From a guitar history web site...

Up until this point the instrument (early Spanish guitars) were small and narrow. Antonio de Torres (1817 - 1892) worked with the design and construction of the guitar. He increased the size and experimented with anything that would improve the sound, and was especially interested in volume. He was the first maker to use "fan" bracing underneath the top. He once built a Guitar with a spruce top and paper mache back and sides to prove his theory that it was the top that produced most of the volume. He was the father of the modern guitar.

2.) From a Luthier's forum:

Post subject: Torres Cardboard (AKA "paper mache") Guitar

The sound box is actually made from a material more like a thick poster board or for those familiar with it, matte board or letramax. I saw this guitar when it was there in 1991 with an exhibit that was at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. It has always been of interest to luthiers as it was thought to be an illustration of the lack of importance of the back and rims regarding guitar sound.

The soundboard is made with two pieces of spruce and in it's interior it has two harmonic bars with six lateral reinforcements on the sides of the mouth (sound hole) and one "pitch bar?". The range consists of seven longitudinal rods, but does not have the two typical Torres "barraje" (frame or bracing?), but between each of the seven is a little (one) that unites them. It is a truly unprecedented "barraje" in the work of the Maestro.

The bottom is internally reinforced by three cross bars and two longitudinal, (which are) much wider and higher than normal, with cedar. The "aros" (rings or hoops? - sorry) have reinforcements along its entire length.

Romanillos states it is the thinnest Torres soundboard in existence, less than 1mm at the edges. That is veneer like. It's hardly believable Torres made it so thin in the first place.

You'll need to join the web site for more details. I'll do that on another day.

II.) Information on Modern Implementations of Paper Mache Guitars

A.) More recently (1986) a guy called John Hunt made a "Papier Mache, Chicken Wire Home Made Guitar" and a video of him playing it is on Youtube (which I can't see from China). Here is this link.

This video was reviewed for me by Oily "Strat-O'-Nine-Tales" Fool, who wrote:

It's a good video. The guitar sounds pretty good, it has a warm tone, and the song is a jPiedmont blues with good lyrics. Can't see his amp in the pic, but he's playing it fingerstyle, no slide, and lightly amplified. The guitar is a 6-string jazzbox size and shape, with a Venetian cutaway, f-holes (which allow you to see how thick the papier-mache' is - which looks to be about 1/2 inch thick), trapeze tailpiece, Tune-O-Matic-style roller bridge, no pickguard, SSH pickup configuration, and what looks like a commercially-made regular six string neck with a shallow carved heel.The bridge is angled to address compensation / intonation issues, probably, and looks to be pressing down into the top so that it bows some.The papier-mache' itself looks like old newspaper, with perhaps a greenish tinge to it from the glue / ink?. The entire guitar body, top and sides (and presumably, back), are papier-mache'.

I'd say this one sounds good enough to try in this amplified config. Don't know how it would sound just acoustic.

The original paper mache guitar built by Torres used a spruce sound board as I recall, and it had internal bracing under the sound board, as well as some bracing in the back. If John Hunt's bridge is sinking down into the top, and it is a wooden sound board, then it likely needs additional bracing around (under) the bridge. If his sound board is paper mache, all I can say is he's doing great to get that far with it. The idea of a strong sound board made of paper mache sounds unlikely unless it also includes internal bracing.

I think I'd prefer a more traditional wooden sound board, but if paper mache can be made to work as a sound board, then great. And why stop there? Maybe a chicken wire neck and head assembly coated liberally with paper mache and perhaps some internal wooden support. Maybe bamboo skewers for frets. Any ideas for tuners? I'd guess nylon strings would be best.

Well that's all I have for now.

-Rand.

0 members like this

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on September 20, 2011 at 4:43am

Hi Oily,

Or maybe paper mache over a woven basket -- shape and structure already taken care of for you.

I was going to buy some poster board today, but then decided I could use some small cardboard boxes I had on hand, and paper mache them, then test them in my diddley bow box tester that I built today. I was thinking of using cotton strips impregnated with glue or paste, saw dust and color pigments. Then a few coats of polyurethane to toughen up the surface, the see how that helps or hurts the resonating capabilty of the box. I will test at different points along the way to help see what works and what doesn't. When I come up with a promissing formula, I'll then build an instrument.

Here's a photo of my tester, modeled after Chuck Duban's. Seems to be a pretty crude tester, but should allow me to determine which alternate method works better.

Well, that's all for now.

-Rand.

Oily "Strat-O'-Nine-Tales" Fool said:

Rand,

Another thought if you can't find chicken wire: can you locate / source finely split bamboo? I would hope this is readily available in China...You could fairly quickly make a bent bamboo frame to drape your poster board over...

Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 20, 2011 at 7:10am

Baskets...willow or straw...of course! Nice idea. Like the replica Dubman tester. Have to build me one of those.

Hey something occurred to me while looking at your pic: does it allow for variable scale length testing? Seems like it could...

I'll be very interested to see your first PMG - we might have to start a new Group!

Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 20, 2011 at 7:13am

Rafal Sulejman said:

Michael,

it's maybe not an entirely sane idea, but - actually - one could glue the paper mache "shell" using wood glue, then "etch off" the styrofoam using nitro solvent (acetone?). The "liquidified" foam will form a semi-hard polistyrene shell inside the paper mache form.

Yeeee-aaaahhhh...chemicals!

Whatever happened to simplicity? Guess we left that behind when papier mache, ceramics, foam, and ship models entered the picture ;-)

Permalink Reply by Seaman Jay on September 20, 2011 at 7:54am

Oily, it's f*cking simple. I destroyed my first styrofoam plane this way. Not that it was planned ;-)

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on September 21, 2011 at 12:27am

H All,

I'm working on my first "paper mache" sound box. It's based on a cardboard box used to contain 10 small bottles of Fancl's Tense-Up Tri-Peptide, some kind of elixir they sell for big bucks to old folks to improve their health by lightening their pocketbooks. The box is a 5.5" x 3.5" x 2.5" box made of thin, but dense cardboard - not so different than poster board. I can get a number of these boxes as my wife is active believer. So, with a supply of identical boxes, I can test surface treatments verses "good audio performance" using the Dobman style box tester I built.

My first box has two layers of newspaper torn into strips and glued on to the box using wallpaper paste. This is my basic approach to paper mache, but using a box as the frame instead of chicken wire. One innovation is that I colored my wallpaper paste using red iron oxide. With the red paste, the box looks like a red brick. It will need to dry overnight. I will then test just the box, and then add a 2mm plywood veneer sound board and test that. Not quite sure how I will attach the soundboard. Likely, when I cut out the side, I will leave a lip of cardboard all the way around which I can use to glue on the sound board.

If it turns out well, then I will likely recycle one of my narrow 2- or 3-string necks to build an instrument out of it. If it doesn't sound to good, then I'll try adding a few coats of water-based polyurethane, which will make the finish more durable, and maybe improve its resonance. Another idea I had was to just use the water-based polyurethane (and pigment) instead of wall paper paste which narrow might further improve the resonance of the box. The next idea after that is to use polyurethane on both the inside and the outside of the box.

The other thing I found out today is my keyboard is acting very flaky, so it's not me making all the typos, it's the computer, or perhaps some virus. Every "m" had to be pasted into this reply message, as were (intermittently) a few other letters ("a", "o" and "i"). There also seems to be some delay in the system slowing down the presentation of characters on screen, which is why I suspect a virus. Probably a keyboard snooper courtesy of our friends in Beijing.

Here I'll type the last paragraph over without correcting for typos...

The oher thing I found out today is y keyboard is actng very flaky, so it's not e aking all the typos, it's the coputer, or perhaps soe vrus. Every "" had to be pasted nto this reply essage, as were (itterittntly) a few other letters ("a", "o" and "'"). There also sees to be soe delay in the syste slowing dwn the presentation of characters on screen, which is why I suspect a virus. Probably a keyboard snooper coutesy of our frends in Beijing.

Let be find a external keyboard to test things out.

-Rand

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on September 21, 2011 at 3:00pm

Now my keyboard is mostly dead
Have to cut and past using mouse to write this

My red paper mache box sounds same as plain box

Added a 2mm plywood veneer sound board glue has to dry

-Rand

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on September 21, 2011 at 5:41pm

HI All.

Now I am using Windows XP's On-Screen Keyboard to enter text now that the keyboard on my laptop as died. Not as good as a real keyboard, but better than using the mouse to cut and paste characters from other documents over to CBN.

Anyway, the red paper mache box now has a 2mm thick plywood veneer sound board. However it doesn't sound much better or much different than the original non-paper mache box. Now I am adding a neck ad strings. Will test that combo, then try again with 2 small sound holes.

-Rand.

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on September 21, 2011 at 10:31pm

Hi All.

Because the red paper mache box sounds fairly good, I decided to add a recycled head and neck. I also added two small 3/8'' sound holes. The resulting 3-string stick dulcimer sounds okay, but does not project sound as much as a wooden box would. I guess it's like the difference between building a CBG from a 'paper/cardboard' cigar box and compared to one built from a wooden cigarbox, although I can't say for sure because I never built a CBG from a paper box. It makes for a nice practice guitar.

Anyways, I applied another thick coat of my red paper mache paste. Its drying tonight. Tomorrow, I will apply a few coats of water-based poly-urethane,string. Will let you know how it turned out.

-Rad....

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on September 22, 2011 at 5:30am

Simple is good, but sooner or later a creative, inventive, experimenting, whack job like me is going to get bored and want to explore out into (As my adult children would say) the "potential for epic failure" zone.

I have tried the foam as a mold then try to chemically dissolve it twice, once building an R/C plane fuselage, another on an attempt at a semi-hollow body electric guitar body. Neither was exactly a resounding success. The plane fuselage stayed a bit mushy and the inside surface would no longer allow adherance to add blocks and parts..... I ended up reverting to a conventional inside out mold and joining the halves internally.

The guitar worked, but didnt sound good, or as hoped and was later scrapped.

But here is what I am thinking of trying.

How about a ring and some sparse ribs with a coating of "linen mache" or paper mache built up in a way that leaves the top surface of the "ring" exposed for glueing a top or soundboard to. Or how about a man made "gourd" and skin for a primitive style banjo body?

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on September 22, 2011 at 12:58pm

Hi Mark.

Those foam mold ideas sound interesting, but I am planning more traditional paper mache modeling techniques once I get a good ''formula'' worked out for making good sounding boxes. My next paper mache box will again be based on the Fancl boxes, but will use water-based polyurethane saturated ''handy-wipes'', which are more cloth like than tissue or newspaper strips. I'm hoping this will produce a harder surface that will ca use the sound to bounce around and project more [sound louder]. Seems like maybe I should be treating the inside of the box with polyurethane as well.

With my current ''PMBG'', I've painted the sound box with another thick coat of red wallpaper paste and after that dried, this morning I jut painted it with a clear coat of polyurethane. I pan to add a couple more coats to see if that will help with projection. As it is now, it's pretty quiet - okay for a practice guitar.

-Rand

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on September 22, 2011 at 2:28pm

Hi All,

I like the idea of building a box frame out of cut throw-away chopsticks and then to use dry handi-wipes impregnated with polyurethane to build up the sides. This really isn't paper mache anymore. But I think the results will be a harder, almost plastic-like, and hopefully resonate better than cardboard and paper mache. I'll post a photo or two of my chopstick box frame before I apply cloth to the sides.

Seems we are heading in the direction of fiber glass, which is too messy for me to do at home. I wonder if there are other relatively clean ways to produce plastic boxes. Well I guess I could build or buy them if I can find a place like Tap Plastics in China. Anyone try building a box guitar from plastic before? How did it turn out? I know the Fluke and Flea ukulles are built from plastic and don't sound bad.

-Rand.

Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 23, 2011 at 10:03pm

Rand,

Chopsticks is what I was probably thinking of when I mentioned "thinly sliced bamboo" a few posts ago out of which to make a cheap framework to drape the PM or fabric over.

BTW, Re home plastics: Here's one half of making casein formaldehyde ( adding formaldehyde to the resulting curds gets you the real deal - drill down into the Comments on this Instructable): http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Plastic/

There are a couple of online sites that advertise casein guitar picks, so this must be how they make 'em. Huh. Who knew?

Not sure I would try this at home, though. Stick with the paper or fabric glue formulations, I'm thinking. Will you post sound files of your first PMBG when you get a chance?

Oily