Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on August 10, 2011 at 5:57pm

Hmm, interesting concept.

While it is possible to hard anodize aluminum and probably get reasonable wear charactaristics, it would likely make the substrate too brittle and non-malleable to work with, and make the build cost prohibitive as well.

I would like to see an original Gittler design in person for ideas. I assume you were thinking of similar all metal structure. It would take a good bit of both machinist and engineer. But cool idea!

It seems to me the practical way to build something somewhat like that, where supplies werent too limited, would be to use either a metal "spine" with "Tee" pieces of (very) hard wood and standard fretwire, with the "tee's" machined to "key" into the spine and attached with a screw from behind. Or a spine of something like hard-rock maple may be more practical with a glued up assembly. Either way we are talking about quite a bit of precision machining of whatever materials were to be used. This is a pretty "big" idea in my opinion, difficult to successfully "cobble" something together!

If you do try something, I would love to see the ideas, progress and results! Keep us posted!

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Gabriele on August 10, 2011 at 9:02pm

--Bike spokes, many alloys, gauges, shapes.--

Bike spokes: 3 euro on ebay (~50 frets) , but 2 mm diameter looks too low to me once you fit it in the fretboard..

or maybe not ?

--While it is possible to hard anodize aluminum and probably get reasonable wear charactaristics, it would likely make the substrate too brittle and non-malleable to work with, and make the build cost prohibitive as well.--

My idea would be to buy 6060 alum alloy , work it and then anodize it .

--I would like to see an original Gittler design in person for ideas. I assume you were thinking of similar all metal structure. It would take a good bit of both machinist and engineer--

I guess the original design wich implies round bars basically , could be adapted to square tubing and L shaped frets bolted , riveted or glued to the square tube.

I found a seller for construction steel tubing , guess it .. now close for summer holidays.

Construction steel is not stailess , but one could be substituting frets for cheap.

Honestly though I am a little skeptic about 'no wood' sound.

Youtube : guy playing a gittler guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ayKDNX3Ds#gittler guitar



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Permalink Reply by Tony Davies on August 11, 2011 at 4:30am

How about making an aluminium neck , and fretless like some of he old guitars like Kramer used to sell

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Permalink Reply by Gabriele on August 11, 2011 at 5:17am

I am interested in how chords behave on a fretless guitar.

youtube  fretless guitar search doesn't show much..

Aluminum looks like being too soft as is .

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on August 11, 2011 at 5:55am

Heres some close ups of the Gittler design.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=6HFRcnCuzC8

I stick by my earlier comments. I see the very high difficulty level of establishing a flat/parallel "fretboard" and the material challenges too great to justify the great effort it would take. Thats not to say its not cool, I just dont see the end result being worth the great effort. JMO of course. Maybe a great machine shop project for the dedicated hobbiest.

Fretless is mentioned, but unless you are going to an open tuning/slide or fewer strings, the level of playing difficulty becomes far too high. Try and entonate more than say, two strings fretless..... just not practical.

The art of the Gittler design is afterall the novel fret design itself, so fretless doesnt really capture the idea. And a spine with no fingerboard has been done, repeatedly through the history of Lute based instruments.

Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to discourage the idea of experimentation, I'd love to see what you come up with. I am just making some observations on my perception of the idea.

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Gabriele on August 11, 2011 at 7:59pm

I missed the close ups of the Gittler.

I second your opinion about this design not being easily replicable, at least with a minimum tool set .

I am largely discouraged by the idea of hand cutting large steel stuff.

I don't like the sound of the Gittler guitar after all I must say.

So going back to a wood neck guitar  .

Guitar frets are too expensive though , if you consider buying minimum 2 sets for a home experiment in guitar building.

So I will check locally for bike spokes as a replacement , as has been suggested earlier.

Wood is another big problem.

I guess I might consider going to the woods and get a fallen oak branch or something like that.

I have a  chopped cherry trunk I might also use  .

I really appreciate  support I am receiving here, thanks.     

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on August 12, 2011 at 6:10am

LOL, you have to excuse me here, and dont take it personally, but you went from an extreme difficulty build concept with expensive materials and the possibility of specialty metal treatment/coatings/machining to keeping it simple (good idea) and a plain wood neck and FRETWIRE is too expensive? Now I just find that funny! Sorry. Like I said, please dont take it personally.

With some determination and minimal funds you can do this, dont be discouraged.

Heres some basic tips. The details to fill in all the blanks are here on this site if you need more help.

You can get enough fretwire to probably do two CBG;s from CB Gitty for under $7. If you are going the economy route a cheap saw is available that will work. A dedicated fret saw and depth guide can be had for about $35.

I am not knocking anyone for using alternative wire, but for instance, in the case of the spoke wire, you will have a lot more time into cutting, fitting, glueing, flattenning, shaping, etc into it than the savings is worth, IMO. And unless you are pretty crafty the end result just may not suit your intentions.

Using wood from fallen branches or locally cut wood is another problem, as it is highly unlikely you will have seasoned, stable, crack, split and void free wood to work with. I have done some work from red oak cut from my property, and its a rare peice that is uaeable for even small parts even after careful selection and several years of slow drying. Its not as simple as just carving out of a branch to be certain.

Keep working on finding a source for commercially milled wood, it will save you a lot of headaches. It may be difficult in some parts of the world, but surely someone can get some peices of useable wood to glue up and carve a rudimentary neck from?

Hey, keep it fun!

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Gabriele on August 12, 2011 at 9:13am

- from an extreme difficulty build concept with expensive materials and the possibility of specialty metal treatment/coatings/machining-

You said so , my intention is to avoid spending big money on expensive items that a newbie can not handle , like exotic woods or fretwire .

Standard anodizing (dye) is a process many people handle at home , without expensive materials.

Machining stainless steel though is maybe out of my reach .

As a note, stainless steel fretwire comes at  11.49 plus shipping even though it is a generous 9(8") .. from CB Gitty , but I wouldn't order goods so far unless no other choice was available, which in my case is 19.3 dollars for 6 ( 10.23 ) from this site (which is a robbery if you ask me) ,shipping price impossible to determine:

http://www.marconilab.com/prestashop/parti-e-ricambi-per-chitarra-e...

-The details to fill in all the blanks are here on this site-

I downloaded a .pdf with construction details , is this what you are referring to ?

It is very interesting , thanks.

I'll check into commercially available wood, but I can see no alternatives to musical instruments shop , which I find have lost connection with real economy and steal candies to children ..

I guess after all I will keep a  prodigal behaviour toward guitar construction.

 

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Permalink Reply by Printer2 on August 12, 2011 at 4:00pm

Heard one person use the strip of metal from windshield wipers as fret material. Much better than aluminum. Speaking of toxicity I think aluminum is more toxic than nickel. And the percentage of nickle in stainless steel is not that high. Besides you are only touching it not cooking food in it. Wash your hands afterwards if you are concerned about touching it.

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Permalink Reply by Gabriele on August 12, 2011 at 7:48pm

- windshield wipers-

You need to find a source of discarded parts to make it economical.

I spotted stainless steel wire being used in vineyards .

http://cgi.ebay.it/FILO-ACCIAIO-INOX-AISI-316-mm-2-00-gr-200-m-8-/1...

Stainless steel has a chrome percentage in it , but I don't think it can be considered toxic, while nickel is toxic to kidneys and liver at minimum.

Aluminum is toxic if ingested only (parkinson..).

So unless you play like Jimi Hendrix , with your teeth, you're fine.

Looking at neck wood alternatives, do you think parquet wood like maple or wengè could be a relative good choice as neck material ?

I am thinking about the unfinished ,raw stuff whose measures seem to fit those of a neck (neck trough).

Of course the cut won't be quartersawn , but one could use a couple of stiffeners.

Again , thank for helping.

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Permalink Reply by swampapple slim on August 13, 2011 at 4:49am

i used aluminum nut too lite sounding.i have bone now. for frets i feel they will wear out way to fast and most aluminum is pourus call cb get nickle bronze. Slim

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Permalink Reply by swampapple slim on August 13, 2011 at 5:03am

i know many guitar players and never has 1 said nickle bronze will harm you mite not be good for a baby but no babies going to play 3 hrs a day they are totally safe or we would have a lot of sick musicions sick is a poor word bad word most of us are sick but thats in the head. stainless is long lasting and long lasting install  nickle bronze med wide and med high .023 tang they cut and file real easy first job go soft who knows if you have to work frets because neck aint perfect you will be glad there soft. try harder or shinier next time and i feel there will be a next time cant make just 1  Slim

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