Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on March 13, 2011 at 2:50am

Obviously the guy isnt looking at building the product in his garage.

I can tell you from my communication with the guy, he's done some serious homework on this. He has looked at the cost of space, employees, tools and equipment, Material, office and shipping expenses, etc. etc.

Also, the money he has raised isnt all from "goodwill" if thats what you want to call it. A large portion is capitol backing from people who will benifit from the company if it succeeds. Also, the additional money raised wasnt just donations, it was fundraising. Like little music books for a $19 donation on up to promises of initial product at higher levels. So I wouldnt describe it as entirely goodwill, although it is a gamble on the part of participants.

Also, the assemble it yourself kit approuch has several benefits. One is certainly shipping and packaging. Another is his belief in something most of us here are or should be aware of, the experience and pleasure/bonding potential of "building it yourself."

I totally agree with everyone that has said the price point is too high, and told him so. I feel that he will probably harshly hinder his success because of it. But as I said, he's done his research and feels thats where he needs to set it to make a go of the business at the initial production and sales projections. I am not defending him, I strongly feel he would much more likely experience success with a base model at under $150.

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Permalink Reply by Bluesdog on March 13, 2011 at 4:04am

Obviously the guy isnt looking at building the product in his garage.

 

Those are actualy some good points your making Mark, this guy is probibly aproching the subject on a much more proffesional way than most of us would do buissnis-wise.

 

As for the goodwill thing, that's my faull for assuming the title meant that it was raised as in non-proft chairity raising, should have asked before i assumed. Sorry. Yes packaging is certainly saves much money sending but the product should reflect that i.m.o. by being cheaper than finished products like the mentioned Strumstick and simular products.

 

That strikes me as odd for a fellow that has done his homework so well both at the packaging matter and final pricerange, i was allway's taught in economic's class that your product price should be 3 times the costprice. One part for the materials, one part for the compagny (workspace, tool  costs, wear, advertising ect ect) and one part for yourself.

 

I think the price your mentioning would be spot on that 3 times the costs rule.

 

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Permalink Reply by Rafa on March 14, 2011 at 2:11am

Hey guys, this is Rafa from Loog Guitars. I just saw this discussion and I wanted to offer my take on some of these points. But first: not trying to convince or convert anybody :-) Needless to say, you are entitled to believe this product is good, bad, expensive, ugly or lame. Anyhow, this is what I want to explain:

 

1) These are not donations I'm getting: they are pre-order.

 

2) The cost of manufacturing a product is just one of many costs to factor in when pricing a product. Research and development, setting up a sophisticated e-commerce website, having enough stock to fulfill orders properly, advertising, the time and energy we invest in this venture, etc. all add up and that's how we came up with the price. Again: you are totally entitled to believe it is expensive, but I just want you to know that, right or wrong, there is some thought put into it, and it's not a matter of "let's charge a random figure".

 

3) The other thing I wanted to point out: I LOVE cigarbox guitars and the CB Nation community. When I was deciding which route to take with Loog Guitars, I deliberately decided to focus on children and make the kits very easy to assemble, precisely so that they differentiate and don't compete with CBGs. I see Loog Guitars as filling in a hole that was empty and it might even encourage kids and parents who enjoy building their Loog Guitars together to take it to the next level and make their own CBGs in the future. Hopefully there's place for both: whoever wants a hardcore DIY experience and likes the raw nature of CBG will continue to prefer CBG, and whoever wants a product that was specifically designed for kids, takes 15 minutes to assemble and has compatible upgradeable parts, might get the Loog Guitar. And again, maybe those getting the Loog Guitar will end up building CBGs along the way.

 

I was recently asked in an interview: in which way is the Loog Guitar better than a ukulele? My answer: it is not better. I'm not in the business of convincing people who want to buy a ukulele (or a CBG) that they should buy a Loog Guitar. I just designed a kid's guitar that (I believe) is better than the other kids' guitars. That's it.

 

Cheers, Rafa

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Permalink Reply by Bluesdog on March 14, 2011 at 2:22am

Clear as a bell, still think it's a little much but hey if you can sell them at that price i wish you all the succes with Loog guitars in the world ;)

 

Ps be ware of McNally, he has dragged people into court that built simular 3 string instruments because they resembled his strumstick too much eventhough it was made from Cigarboxes so you might want to watch out, don't know if he won but i imagine a lawsuit is not the most desireable thing for a young compagny.

 

Best wishes, Frans

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Permalink Reply by Jon Pruett on March 14, 2011 at 3:54am

This looks like a very cool product for a different niche than our beloved CBG's.  If I lived with my family in an apartment without the access to tools and working space that I enjoy today (like millions of American's do),  I think I would be willing to pay the advertised price for this product.   I'm sure there would also be some "local artistic decorations" applied during the build cycle - starting a customer forum where kids could show off their customized guitars and videos could be a great community experience for the product.

 

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on March 14, 2011 at 4:52am

An online playing and learning community for kids would seem to be an awesome idea!

But maybe we are being optimistic, unless theres an interactive smart phone app and a Loog themed video game and lessons can be delivered in segments of 1.5 minutes or less.

Otherwise we are back to my thoughts on marketing them to a more mature customer base,

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Permalink Reply by Ben on March 14, 2011 at 5:19am

I'm just waiting to see these fill up pawn shops when they all start "hocking loogs." Bwahahaha!

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on March 14, 2011 at 5:36am

Ben, that was terrible!

But funny.

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on March 14, 2011 at 6:20am

Hello Rafael,

 

I posted this topic because I was impressed by your presentation and the method you used to fund the start up. If I accidently posted any misinfomation is was solely due to a misunderstanding.

Additionally, I appreciate you commenting and expressing your position here.

Although, CBN is a great place with many fine people, it is also a "Cave of Tigers" and people freely express their ideas. No rules.

Personally, I wish you the best in your venture. I am surprised someone hasn't done it yet. I always figured it was just a matter of time for a large manufacture like Fender or Gibson for example to promote a rural 3 string instrument. Ironically, this is what the original Cigar Box Guitar Revolution was all about. Not being reliant on the Man. LOL   

There is certainly enough room for everyone here. We have a lot of good artists here on the Nation. Unfortunately, like you know marketing is key to selling.

Thanks again for your comments. Enjoy, Keni Lee       

 

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Permalink Reply by Ben on March 14, 2011 at 6:27am

Only meant for a chuckle...no degradation on the product (or name...better than I could do).

Mark Bliss said:

Ben, that was terrible!

But funny.

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Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on March 14, 2011 at 7:42am

Actually, I think a 3-string guitar IS better than a ukulele for beginning players.  It is an easier fretboard to understand and work around, and the chord shapes you make are easier and require less fingers.  IMHO!

 

That being said, my teenage daughter has taught herself 6-string guitar and uke all on her own, and has never once picked up a 3-string guitar, even though there have been dozens laying around the house for the last few years.  So much for my opinion!

 

 

Rafa said:

 

I was recently asked in an interview: in which way is the Loog Guitar better than a ukulele? My answer: it is not better. I'm not in the business of convincing people who want to buy a ukulele (or a CBG) that they should buy a Loog Guitar. I just designed a kid's guitar that (I believe) is better than the other kids' guitars. That's it.

 

Cheers, Rafa

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Permalink Reply by jeff maurer on March 19, 2011 at 6:29am

i think this is a wonderful idea whose time has finally come. there are a lot of kits out there for "real guitars" and none of them are really that cheap or easy enough for a kid to put together. i think if i had one of these when i was around 8, 9, or 10 i could easily put the thing together with out any help at all. the kit looks really easy.
as far as the price is concerned people will pay it. for a father looking for a new way to spend quality time with their kid 200 bucks is a drop in the hat. o lot of parents will drop over a thousand dollars on things like minibikes, go-karts, snowmobiles just looking for a way to get closer to their kids.
does anybody remember how much fun it was sitting with your dad making model cars? at least a loog wont sit on a shelf collecting dust. you can actually play with a loog.
i wish this guy all the luck in the world, i cant be easy trying to start a new company in this day and age. cant wait till my kid is born and starts growing so we can do stuff like this together

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