Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by sad sack on August 29, 2010 at 7:58am

wow don, great pictures and explanation of your process. how much time does it take to make one pickup? seems very labor intensive.
Don Goguen said:

Copper is pretty expensive right now but I do have a suggestion for a bargain find. Surplus Sales of Nebraska has 4-5lb Electrosol 42 Gauge heavy build wire for $14 a pound. Compare this to $180 for a five pound spool at Mojo tone, it is a bargain. 42 single build is a bit more common for 6 string single coils but I really like heavy build for CBG's. I wind them fat using Alnico 5 magnets and net good output that is less shrill on the top end.


Here are some pictorial tips that might help.

In the first picture I draw the bobbin on the computer, print it out actual size and use a glue stick to fasten it to the bobbin material. I use a scroll saw to cut them out. Make sure you sand and file all the sharp edges as the fine wire can get caught very easily.

The second picture shows my drilling set up. Pretty strait forward. I use a small clamp and drill the first hole. I insert a magnet to help keep the assembly lined up. For .185 magnets I use a number 14 drill bit and for .195 I use a number 10. The screw holes are 1/8" and the wire ferules that come from Mojo Tone use a #43 drill bit.

The third picture shows a bobbin mounted. I use simple double sided tape for this. I cut a small piece of blue masking tape and place it where the wire goes through the bobbin. This is important because the double sided tape will catch and break the wire when you remove it from the winder.

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Permalink Reply by sad sack on August 29, 2010 at 7:59am

also, what is the bobbin material?
sad sack said:

wow don, great pictures and explanation of your process. how much time does it take to make one pickup? seems very labor intensive.


Don Goguen said:

Copper is pretty expensive right now but I do have a suggestion for a bargain find. Surplus Sales of Nebraska has 4-5lb Electrosol 42 Gauge heavy build wire for $14 a pound. Compare this to $180 for a five pound spool at Mojo tone, it is a bargain. 42 single build is a bit more common for 6 string single coils but I really like heavy build for CBG's. I wind them fat using Alnico 5 magnets and net good output that is less shrill on the top end.


Here are some pictorial tips that might help.

In the first picture I draw the bobbin on the computer, print it out actual size and use a glue stick to fasten it to the bobbin material. I use a scroll saw to cut them out. Make sure you sand and file all the sharp edges as the fine wire can get caught very easily.

The second picture shows my drilling set up. Pretty strait forward. I use a small clamp and drill the first hole. I insert a magnet to help keep the assembly lined up. For .185 magnets I use a number 14 drill bit and for .195 I use a number 10. The screw holes are 1/8" and the wire ferules that come from Mojo Tone use a #43 drill bit.

The third picture shows a bobbin mounted. I use simple double sided tape for this. I cut a small piece of blue masking tape and place it where the wire goes through the bobbin. This is important because the double sided tape will catch and break the wire when you remove it from the winder.

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Permalink Reply by sad sack on August 29, 2010 at 8:01am

ebay is a great source for magnet wire "42 awg" is what to search for. i bought 2 ten pound spools about 18 months ago for under $150. more wire then i will use ever.

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Permalink Reply by Don Goguen on August 29, 2010 at 9:11am

Sad Sack

A lot of questions. First of all, I've developed a system so it really doesn't take that much time. If I were to make them in quantity, I'd say 6 in two hours. It takes me less than 5 minutes in CAD to lay out the spacing and bobbin size. This is the biggest variable in the process as each pickup is made specifically for what I'm building. Cutting out the flat stock takes a couple of minutes (the material is vulcanized fiberboard aka, Forbon). The compound vice is always mounted to the drill press so drilling a few holes is a 5 minute job, less each if done in multiples. Assembly involves tapping the magnets in, applying a few dabs of super glue and then a quick spray of lacquer. After the bobbin assembly is dry (15-20 min)I install the wire ferules which is a one minute job.

Winding is the most time consuming part. How long depends on how fast the bobbin is turning. I wind a typical 3 or 4 pole pickup between 10.5k to 12k turns. At 1000 rpm,figure 10 to 12 minutes. I can wind up to 1600 rpm on a good day. I crank some tunes and get into a zone.

You asked about the impedance but frankly that is a measurement that is not very relevant. In designing these it is more important to understand the relationship between the magnet and number of turns. A 10k ohm 6 string pickup specification does not translate in a smaller form factor. You can add more wire to a smaller pickup but you would end up with more turns than you would a 6 pole pickup. This additional wire may end up outside of the useful magnetic field. I have done this on purpose but for an over saturated effect that works on clean but I don't like it with heavy distortion.

What I make is a bit different than most modern pickups. I try to balance an old school vibe with the modern. After a lot of experimenting, I've gained a handle on voicing them to a sound that I am after. There is only one way of figuring this out, read everything you can on the subject but in the end you will need to wind a bunch of different pickups.

The pickup in my latest build (the one you asked about) is 5.6k. In the same photo album, there is a picture showing the inside of the box and how it is braced. I think that covers your questions.

Don

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Permalink Reply by sad sack on August 29, 2010 at 10:33am

thanks for the info don. i use the same material for my bobbins as well. another name for it is "fish paper" you can see and hear my pickups on my page here and on hollowbelly's page as well. or in some live videos posted of him/me on here and youtube. i agree with the # of winds for a 6 string not translating to a pickup with less pole, and i've made the same explanation to other pickup builders who have disagreed. i've also under and over wound them to see what the real difference is. i've found that getting between 4 and 5k ohms works best for the sound i'm going for. i like to push the amp hard as you can tell from my recordings. i don't use any effects or overdrive. i plug straight into a two knob tube fender amp and turn it all the way up. a kid at the festival yesterday didn't want to believe that. he insisted i was using a distortion pedal... i don't count my windings, i can eyeball the proper amount. i also hand scatter wind mine, i use no guide other then my hands. here a photo of my customized singer pickup winder. all of the guts are removed. i figure it spins at around 1000 - 1200 rpm. i dig your stuff. have you ever considered top mounting? saves space inside the box.

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Permalink Reply by Spencer on August 29, 2010 at 1:51pm

You happen to have any other pics of that winder, Sad Sack? There's a very similar one at a local thrift store that I had to tear myself away from buying. But 25 bucks might be worth the investment if they work well. It's not so much the money, but the fact that I was thinking I could make one out of most anything that has a spinning motor. Any info on that would be pretty great, though.

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Permalink Reply by sad sack on August 29, 2010 at 2:22pm

this is my second sewing machine winder. i'm going to do a bit about it on my blog at christianbeshore.com it may be a while until that happens tho. the advantage with the sewing machine is that it already has a variable speed, foot controlled motor. they also run pretty fast when you remove the guts, eliminating lots of resistance. the trick really is coming up with a bobbin design and mounting method that work well together. this set up is my third incarnation and mostly involved changing my bobbin top significantly. in the end it turns out i can make a hotter pickup, so it was well worth the change.

Steve Spencer said:

You happen to have any other pics of that winder, Sad Sack? There's a very similar one at a local thrift store that I had to tear myself away from buying. But 25 bucks might be worth the investment if they work well. It's not so much the money, but the fact that I was thinking I could make one out of most anything that has a spinning motor. Any info on that would be pretty great, though.

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Permalink Reply by Spencer on August 29, 2010 at 2:37pm

Thanks very much. It looks like that will likely be my next thrift store purchase. I'm assuming you just hand-guide the wire on as it's running? Some more complex DIY winders feature something to guide it on but I thought that seemed like something that was more hassle than payoff. Like the one in the Lollar book, for example.

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Permalink Reply by sad sack on August 29, 2010 at 2:55pm

i learned all of what i know from trial and error or online, mostly youtube. i guide the wire by hand, it never even occured to me to do it another way. my advice is to get as much wire on there as you can, then put on a bunch more.

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Permalink Reply by Michael R Cossey on August 30, 2010 at 6:48am

Don,

I sure would like to have a copy of that diagram, It would come in handy in my near future.......
Thanks, Mike

"I purchased a red lion counter on Ebay for $15 and an optical sensor from Newark Electronics. I needed to build a simple power supply circuit for the sensor. I can provide the diagram to anyone that wants it."

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Permalink Reply by Don Goguen on August 30, 2010 at 10:41am

I'm in Iowa all week on business but I'll post it up on my blog when I get back. I have my work laptop, not my personal one so I don't have the pdf. The diagram is pretty simple. A couple of Caps, a voltage regulator and a few resistors. The Red Lion work off an internal battery that supposed to have a 10 year life span. The circuit is only for the optical sensor so you end up with a pulse input to the counter. In the picture on my post (it is probably not too clear) behind the bobbin plate is a washer that is half painted flat black. The sensor I chose emits IR and measures the reflection back. With the counter/sensor combo I picked, it is good past 2k rpm.

Anybody know what there is to do in Des Moines?

Michael R Cossey said:

Don,

I sure would like to have a copy of that diagram, It would come in handy in my near future.......
Thanks, Mike

"I purchased a red lion counter on Ebay for $15 and an optical sensor from Newark Electronics. I needed to build a simple power supply circuit for the sensor. I can provide the diagram to anyone that wants it."

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Permalink Reply by Bob Harrison on August 30, 2010 at 1:12pm

That looks like the machine I used to build my winder. My singer was built in 1948. By the way the motors have a date stamped on them, month/year. And the machine serial number can be looked up as well. I have three of these motors and found all three needed the AC input wires replaced, easy job. Cheers Bob
sad sack said:

thanks for the info don.


i use the same material for my bobbins as well. another name for it is "fish paper" you can see and hear my pickups on my page here and on hollowbelly's page as well. or in some live videos posted of him/me on here and youtube.

i agree with the # of winds for a 6 string not translating to a pickup with less pole, and i've made the same explanation to other pickup builders who have disagreed. i've also under and over wound them to see what the real difference is. i've found that getting between 4 and 5k ohms works best for the sound i'm going for. i like to push the amp hard as you can tell from my recordings. i don't use any effects or overdrive. i plug straight into a two knob tube fender amp and turn it all the way up. a kid at the festival yesterday didn't want to believe that. he insisted i was using a distortion pedal...

i don't count my windings, i can eyeball the proper amount. i also hand scatter wind mine, i use no guide other then my hands.

here a photo of my customized singer pickup winder. all of the guts are removed. i figure it spins at around 1000 - 1200 rpm.

i dig your stuff. have you ever considered top mounting? saves space inside the box.

• ▶ Reply

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