Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David L. on July 19, 2010 at 5:20am

Hi Jim,

I get this if I have some overdrive on the amp (piezos don't like overdrive). With no overdrive I can change between the pickups without any problem.

What amp are you using? (The smokey type amps using a LM386 chip often are used with the chip wired to overdrive to boost the sound)

Also how close are you to the amp? - If you play loud the humbucker will play fine right up to the amp but the piezo will tend to feedback much more easily.

Also any pictures - I'd love to see the guitar.

Regards,
David

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Birmingham on July 19, 2010 at 5:49am

Hi David,,,Thanks for your quick reply. The humbucker plays fine,,,,but when i switch to the piezo is when i get the feedback. The amp is solid state and I am I am not using the Gain circuit. The fellow that purchased the guitar is using a blues driver,,,So that could be where the problem is. Would it cause a problem if the Boss Blues driver is turned off???
Also,,I have made him single jack piezo's in the past and he has not had any issues with that setup. If you can tell me how to send a picture I will sure do it.

David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

I get this if I have some overdrive on the amp (piezos don't like overdrive). With no overdrive I can change between the pickups without any problem.

What amp are you using? (The smokey type amps using a LM386 chip often are used with the chip wired to overdrive to boost the sound)

Also how close are you to the amp? - If you play loud the humbucker will play fine right up to the amp but the piezo will tend to feedback much more easily.

Also any pictures - I'd love to see the guitar.

Regards,
David

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David L. on July 19, 2010 at 8:14am

Hi Jim,

To add pictures to the posting you use the camera icon on the toolbar above where you type (it lets you select the picture off your computer and you than click add. It sticks on a load of text which converts to a picture when you press "add reply")

I would ask the gentleman to give it a try without the blues driver and see if it improves things. I was playing around with a korg pandora (mini effects) and found you could get some of the overdriven effects with the effect control on the lowest setting when using a piezo - a notch further and it was feedback city. Compared to a humbucker which needed it cranked up further to hear the same effect. i wonder if is part the problem - the blues driver will work a piezo on its own on a low setting (so the previous discs worked fine on their own) but setting it higher for the humbucker means the piezo feedsback when it is added.

David

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Birmingham on July 19, 2010 at 8:53am

Hi David,I still can't figure out the pictures,,so could you please go to my build #36 black partagas listed in the photo section
Jim

David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

To add pictures to the posting you use the camera icon on the toolbar above where you type (it lets you select the picture off your computer and you than click add. It sticks on a load of text which converts to a picture when you press "add reply")

I would ask the gentleman to give it a try without the blues driver and see if it improves things. I was playing around with a korg pandora (mini effects) and found you could get some of the overdriven effects with the effect control on the lowest setting when using a piezo - a notch further and it was feedback city. Compared to a humbucker which needed it cranked up further to hear the same effect. i wonder if is part the problem - the blues driver will work a piezo on its own on a low setting (so the previous discs worked fine on their own) but setting it higher for the humbucker means the piezo feedsback when it is added.

David

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David L. on July 19, 2010 at 9:04am

Hi Jim, What a great looking guitar you have made. I have taken the liberty of adding them here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Birmingham on July 19, 2010 at 9:16am

Thanks David for adding the pictures for me. I should be recieving the guitar that we talked about. When I receive it I will let you know what it is doing. I checked it before I shipped it and did not identify the issues that I noted. Jim
David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

What a great looking guitar you have made. I have taken the liberty of adding them here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Birmingham on July 20, 2010 at 9:57am

Hi David,,,Right now the set up is piezo/humbucker with one jack. If I added a second piezo would it add volume???? And if yes, would I wire it paralell or in series. I am looking for more volume. Does a second piezo make it more prone to feedback??? Jim
David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

What a great looking guitar you have made. I have taken the liberty of adding them here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David L. on July 20, 2010 at 10:30am

Hi Jim,

There is a discussion here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/the-benefits-of-double-p... I have read some people say wiring is series adds sound but also the very high impedance is increased further. I have tended to wire 2 or 3 in parallel as it lowers impedance and have been happy with the results. Sound appreciation is such a personal choice it is probably best try it both ways, by twisting the wires together and sticking to the CBG inside with tape so you can easily change it and see which you prefer.

The extra piezos means more transmitted sound (rubbing from the box against your body) but if you like to add a bit of soundboard percussion it could be seen as a plus.

You say you are after extra volume - what issue are you trying to solve? (once you start boosting the piezo output with a preamp for example the feedback kicks in if you try to boost the output too high).

Has the guitar being shipped back to you arrived yet? I am really interested in if you found any issues with it. One thought did occur to me was that some people have a too high an expectation of a piezo and assume they will act like a magnetic pickup. Whereas in reality you would never get an electroacoustic guitar player expecting an electroacoustic guitar with an undersaddle piezo/preamp to work with overdrive and sound good.

If you are after a "better" sound (as I said it is personal choice as to what sounds good) but I have in the past week bought a passive tone/volume control off ebay for around $9 that works well and comes with an under saddle piezo discussed here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/cbgwiringelectronics/forum/topi...

If this is what you are thinking of I can try to make a quick video clip so you can get an idea of what it sounds like.

Regards,
David

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Birmingham on July 20, 2010 at 10:50am

Yes I rec'd the guitar yesterday and upon inspection,,The piezo was found laying in the bottom of the box. This was thought to be caused from temperatures in excess of 100 degrees F during shipping.There is no question that this caused the feedback issue. My goal is to give the guitar a fuller sound. I think I will experiment by adding piezos and see what it achieves. Will let you know my findings.
Jim

David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

There is a discussion here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/the-benefits-of-double-p... I have read some people say wiring is series adds sound but also the very high impedance is increased further. I have tended to wire 2 or 3 in parallel as it lowers impedance and have been happy with the results. Sound appreciation is such a personal choice it is probably best try it both ways, by twisting the wires together and sticking to the CBG inside with tape so you can easily change it and see which you prefer.

The extra piezos means more transmitted sound (rubbing from the box against your body) but if you like to add a bit of soundboard percussion it could be seen as a plus.

You say you are after extra volume - what issue are you trying to solve? (once you start boosting the piezo output with a preamp for example the feedback kicks in if you try to boost the output too high).

Has the guitar being shipped back to you arrived yet? I am really interested in if you found any issues with it. One thought did occur to me was that some people have a too high an expectation of a piezo and assume they will act like a magnetic pickup. Whereas in reality you would never get an electroacoustic guitar player expecting an electroacoustic guitar with an undersaddle piezo/preamp to work with overdrive and sound good.

If you are after a "better" sound (as I said it is personal choice as to what sounds good) but I have in the past week bought a passive tone/volume control off ebay for around $9 that works well and comes with an under saddle piezo discussed here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/cbgwiringelectronics/forum/topi...

If this is what you are thinking of I can try to make a quick video clip so you can get an idea of what it sounds like.

Regards,
David

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mama Mojo on July 20, 2010 at 12:21pm

Jim, I have had so many experiences with piezos not staying in place - in both cbgs that i have purchased and in some that I've made, that I have gone the route of using the drill press to create a space in the neck for the disk and then I hot glue it into place and wrap some electrical tape around the neck for added protection. They never slip off that way..... and I think they sound better. With two disks, I put one in the neck higher up and do one lower or I work it into the bridge. The output is fabulous!

David - thanks for all of this info. I'm learning far more about piezos than I had ever thought possible and it is helping me tremendously in my builds.

Jim Birmingham said:

Yes I rec'd the guitar yesterday and upon inspection,,The piezo was found laying in the bottom of the box. This was thought to be caused from temperatures in excess of 100 degrees F during shipping.There is no question that this caused the feedback issue. My goal is to give the guitar a fuller sound. I think I will experiment by adding piezos and see what it achieves. Will let you know my findings.
Jim David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

There is a discussion here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/the-benefits-of-double-p... I have read some people say wiring is series adds sound but also the very high impedance is increased further. I have tended to wire 2 or 3 in parallel as it lowers impedance and have been happy with the results. Sound appreciation is such a personal choice it is probably best try it both ways, by twisting the wires together and sticking to the CBG inside with tape so you can easily change it and see which you prefer.

The extra piezos means more transmitted sound (rubbing from the box against your body) but if you like to add a bit of soundboard percussion it could be seen as a plus.

You say you are after extra volume - what issue are you trying to solve? (once you start boosting the piezo output with a preamp for example the feedback kicks in if you try to boost the output too high).

Has the guitar being shipped back to you arrived yet? I am really interested in if you found any issues with it. One thought did occur to me was that some people have a too high an expectation of a piezo and assume they will act like a magnetic pickup. Whereas in reality you would never get an electroacoustic guitar player expecting an electroacoustic guitar with an undersaddle piezo/preamp to work with overdrive and sound good.

If you are after a "better" sound (as I said it is personal choice as to what sounds good) but I have in the past week bought a passive tone/volume control off ebay for around $9 that works well and comes with an under saddle piezo discussed here http://www.cigarboxnation.com/group/cbgwiringelectronics/forum/topi...

If this is what you are thinking of I can try to make a quick video clip so you can get an idea of what it sounds like.

Regards,
David

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mama Mojo on July 20, 2010 at 12:22pm

Beautiful!!!!!!
Jim Birmingham said:

Hi David,,,Right now the set up is piezo/humbucker with one jack. If I added a second piezo would it add volume????

And if yes, would I wire it paralell or in series. I am looking for more volume. Does a second piezo make it more prone to feedback???
Jim

David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

What a great looking guitar you have made. I have taken the liberty of adding them here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Birmingham on July 20, 2010 at 12:32pm

Thanks so much for the info Jim
Mama Mojo said:

Beautiful!!!!!!


Jim Birmingham said:

Hi David,,,Right now the set up is piezo/humbucker with one jack. If I added a second piezo would it add volume????

And if yes, would I wire it paralell or in series. I am looking for more volume. Does a second piezo make it more prone to feedback???
Jim

David Lloyd said:

Hi Jim,

What a great looking guitar you have made. I have taken the liberty of adding them here.

• ▶ Reply

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