Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by the anonymous pick on August 7, 2014 at 6:15am

but as soon as  you   fix shit,   and   attempt to  cover it  up  .     you admit  a  mistake  ......... and    a   "fix"  is  evident  .  its a repaired  guitar . 

as  it    is ,   you  can  say " i  meant to  do  that  .  cause there  is no  problem  with the  enclosed  tuners   going that  way "  .

 and it's true .  

i  myself have been doing  it  for years  .. and  never  a  problem  .  

it  is  only  a  problem  on     open face  tuners and cheap    vintage  fender stripe  knock offs  . 

you  know   who  tells  you  it's  a problem  ?  ..  people that have already  wasted  money  buying  extra   tuners   for  both  sides  .  and  have a shit load  of extras  lying around  ..     lol..  ready to sell. 

or  folks  that  just  heard  half the story  . 

Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on August 7, 2014 at 6:29am

Nothing wrong with admitting "mistakes;" humans make em all the time. So do cats. Cats almost always walk away looking like "I meant to do that..." And I am not trying to sell more tuners, or tell you you're "worng;" I'm offering years of experience playing expensive and cheap gits, and have had both sealed and open geared tuning machines strip on me when installed "against the grain." And I'm not arguing with pick's opposite assessment, because I have one of his Witches that is fitted the "wrong" way, and it works fine. However, if you go to my Profile page, I wrote some Suessian lyrics about this issue, for all to enjoy ;-).

But, what does this have to do with gordon's Waverly uke tuners?

Permalink Reply by Biscuit on August 6, 2014 at 6:21pm

Thanks for setting my straight on the physics! I understood the idea of wanting the string to pull the cog and worm together, but completely missed which direction the string tension was operating! -- the 2D view made it appear to me the strings pulled the cog down. But thinking it through I guess the headstock acts as a fulcrum for the tuner shaft, and levers the cog up -- making the middle tuner the correct orientation, as you point out and as is shown on JL's headstock photo below.

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Permalink Reply by the anonymous pick on August 7, 2014 at 6:51am

no    argument    oily  ,    my  original    comment  said  "most  "  ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on August 7, 2014 at 9:33am

Ah. Modifiers. No argument, here, either, as neither of us is "most."

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Permalink Reply by JL on August 6, 2014 at 1:21am

I'm scratching my head trying to understand what you mean by "won't seat"??? 

Is the tuner body not sitting flat to the back of the headstock?

Are the bushings not sitting all the way down into the holes from the front of the headstock?

hopefully this photo will help you describe for us what is not fitting down well??

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on August 6, 2014 at 2:23am

Zackly. I'm not sure what he means, either. The Waverly repro bases don't sit flat on the headstock, as they are slightly dished with a rim. This design works so that as the baseplate was screwed down, the plate edge would bite into the wood.

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Permalink Reply by grondon oconnor on August 6, 2014 at 1:37pm

Wow, you guys are really trying to help and thanks thanks. Problem is more with my descriptions and assumptions than anything else. Im mounting Waverly friction tuners on a Uke. Roughed out neck with Head Stock at 1/2" thick came from Mainland Ukes with peg holes pre drilled at 5/16" for each of the four friction pegs included. Friction pegs were uuh, not great. Ok, all was not very expensive so pegs pretty much as can be expected. Pegs just didn`t work so bought a set of Waverly Uke friction pegs from StewMac. Now, with the Waverly barrel diameters and the champher angles on pegs at 60 and 100 degrees the 5/16 holes were too large for the pegs to seat. I glued 5/16 dowels into the original predrilled holes, then center drilled the dowels at 3/16 for the peg shafts. Then countersunk these 3/16 holes with the 60 and 100 .That`s when I went through the Birch dowel etc etc described in the original post. Birch countersunk holes and bottom chrome peg ends mate perfectly at 60 degrees but chrome against Birch would only hold if adjustment screw was tightened so much that could barely turn them. 

Have string directions right etc

and found the friction of the hard Birch and Chrome ends of the pegs, though matched with the countersunk needed over tightening to hold.

I know I have a lot to learn about describing operations and may still not be there yet.

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Permalink Reply by robert jones on August 6, 2014 at 2:42pm

Add photos with the description whenever possible. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on August 6, 2014 at 3:09pm

Ahhh, Uke friction tuners, got it. Like these:

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Ukulele/W...

So to get them to hold with enough friction you have to crank the central axis screw down so much that you can barely turn the tuning peg? Something's not quite right, then. IIRC, Stew-Mac sells a countersink reamer for Uke friction tuners. You actually want to have a slight taper so that the chamfers on the barrel and the top ring have something to bind against.

If those still don't work, you might want to send them back, and try these instead:

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Ukulele/W...

Twice the cost of the first set, but they will definitely work better and be more stable than any friction tuners. I thought you were using these, so didn't understand.

Or go cheaper (why Waverlys on a cheaper uke?), and get a set of sealed gear tuners from Mainland Ukes at $21.95 for a set of 4, if you're not absolutely wedded to friction tuners. FTs are a pisser to deal with and get right.

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Permalink Reply by grondon oconnor on August 6, 2014 at 8:18pm

Yes.  Used Waverly frictions because wanted less mechanical look with a cigar box, bit more traditional.  Not a cheap Uke, and sounds great with Western Red Cedar top replacing box back, Spruce bracing and floated fret board over top. Am using proper 100 degree counter sink (same as StewMac.) and will make it work. Perhaps will trade look for ease of use and accuracy in tuning for future builds. Bought two sets of Waverlys so will press on. Thanks to all for interest. I really enjoy building these cigar box instruments and following your various posts on different aspects of building. Lots of experience here.

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on August 7, 2014 at 12:08am

G,

OK, Understand your desire for trad look. I really hope these work for you. I took a look at Mainland Ukes website, and couldn't find any ukes over $400, which is why I said "cheaper." There are ukes out there running in the thousands, which was the basis for my comparison, and why I wondered about putting expensive Waverlys on one. And now I get that you apparently purchased one of their necks, and mated it to a cigar box. And that you countersunk the holes correctly. So am at a loss as to why they don't appear to be working as smoothly as they should, based on your description. I have a couple of 50's ukes lying around with friction tuners, and have played several banjos with same ( not cheap ones, either), and they all seem to need to be cranked tight within an inch of their lives to stay on, and still provide relatively stable tuning. Which is why I'd personally rather not futz with them.

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