Hey all,
I recently completed my first CBG and decided to try a rod piezo under the saddle -vs- using the disc type glued in the box somewhere. From all I read, the under the saddle pickup was the way to go. However, I'm pretty disappointed in the sound.
Did some more reading and discovered that if I'm plugging into a standard electric guitar amp, a piezo "buffer", or preamp is a good thing to have, so I whipped up a little J-FET, impedence matching, buffer with only marginal improvement . OK, it's easier to drive the amp, but the sound really lacks depth and is shrill, sharp, scatchy, clacky... just generally unpleasant.
So I'm thinking to myself that maybe, just maybe, something is amiss with my pickup or wiring, so I do a little experiment and stick a disc piezo to the box with a gob of Silly Putty and run that directly into my little buffer and into my amp. Wow, what a difference - now it sounds more like what I expected. If I use double sided foam tape to stick the disc to the box the sound improves even more. Hmmmm....I then had a Eureka! moment - could it be that my rod piezo is just fine, but it's more likely the relative placement to the string terminations?
You see, I'm using a home-made tail piece to terminate my strings and the saddle is only about 1.5" away from the tailpiece. Is it possible that there's too much pressure on the pickup and that's why the sound quality is surpassed by the lowly, hastily applied, disc piezo?
Before I cut into the box and glue in some discs (yes, the box is glued shut) , I thought I'd run my theory by you all. What do you all think? Did I screw up with my basic geometry?
Oh, but wait, here's the interesting part... took the CBG to my local Guitar Center to test drive some amps in it's current configuration... although it was well received visually, it had that same nasty, shrill, scratchy, clacky, sharp, unpleasant tone... that is until we plugged it into a $360 Fishman Loudbox Mini ACOUSTIC amp, then and only then did it sound friggin' amazing - very much like a nice amped acoustic guitar. Do these amps have a lot of filtering and signal manipulation to deal with this? I mean it was a whole different guitar and the one guy played it for 20 minutes and I stood there in awe.
Sorry for the long post, but I'm really lost here - please, somebody, show me the way to CBG nirvana.
Tags:
Joe: this may have been addressed somewhere in the previous responses but based on your pic, it looks like you may not have sufficient break angle over the saddle. As mentioned earlier, the rod needs downward pressure in order to work properly. So you need good string tension. Obviously the sharper the angle, the more downward pressure/tension you will get. Lowering your tailpiece, etc. will help. You can get away with having a little wiggle room in your saddle slot -front to back & side to side- just not up & down.
Everyone - thanks for all the input. I sort of agree - the issue has to be in the saddle, bridge, break-over angle, etc, etc...
FWIW, the slot in the bridge was cut using a 1/8" dia end mill, about .090" from the bottom of the bridge, and it has a flat bottom. The saddle is a nice sliding fit - not so tight that it sticks, but no slop either.
I'm pretty sure my preamp is working as the disc piezos stuck to the outside of the box sound pretty darn good - good enough to make me want to abandon the rod piezo altogether. However, if I do that, what have a I learned, right? I'm guessing that the Fishman amp was making up for a lot of my set-ups short comings, huh?
I'm going to work on this end of things and report back when I get it figured out.
sounds like your rod setup is ok,my 1st was a disaster,try setting up an inline pre-amp after the output jack temporarily,see how it goes,if all good,maybe you can fit pre output jack in guit.
That's not a bad idea, but the truth is that the rod piezo truly sucks - in my current configuration. I'm not giving up on the rod just yet... it's an interesting problem and will be a great learning experience. I'll work on the rod set-up a bit and take it from there. However, I'm seriously considering one of the flat-pups as less surgery will be required to install (-vs- dual disc piezos) and a mag pickup is more of the sound I'm after anyway.
For whatever reason, the rod really sounded good through the Fishman amp, but there's no way I'm gonna plop down that kind of cash for a one trick pony.
Success or failure, you'll read about it here!
I am a fan of the rods mostly due to the fact that they allow for an acoustic/electric build without sacrificing any more cubic inches inside the box. I think they sound much better than the discs; less "neck noise." Shielded mag pups will almost always sound better than any piezo, but then you get into having to add extra beef to the neck (on a thru-neck, anyway) since mounting it requires cutting a deeper cavity in the neck to accept the depth of the pickup. You could just as easily build a rectangular solidbody and wrap a pretty cigar box around it ...and a lot of guys do just that. I'm often left scratching my head when it comes to people freaking out about things like sustain & tonal quality with these things. It is a cigar box guitar, after all. It's NOT SUPPOSED to sound like a standard guitar. I mean, I play mine through nothing but 30-dollar amps from the pawnshop. Don't get me wrong, I am all for making the best looking, best sounding, and most playable instrument I can -and I work very hard at it- but I will never use one of those godawful plastic-y onboard chinese pre-amp things with all the switches & crap. The flat pup is a really good option. I have not used them myself, but other folks who I trust swear by them. When I am having issues with a particular build, sometimes I just put it away for awhile & work on another one. One of the greatest things about this hobby/business/pastime/obsession is the experimentation aspect of it all. Over time, I have learned to solve/fix most of problems I run into. But it took awhile, and I have what is left of the 5 or 6 cbgs that got smashed against the floor/wall/amp in fits of angst-ridden rage to prove it. : -)
Someday I will. Right now I've got at all stowed in a box under the bench, behind the cough syrup & the Xanax.
Slight update... I spent a couple hours this morning working on this thing. Fabricated a new tail piece in an attempt to improve the string break-over and and I'm sorry to report it didn't help one bit. (I also sanded the thickness of the saddle to loosen it in the slot and filed the bottom edge square and flat.)
I'm convinced that my current geometry doesn't allow for enough down pressure on the pickup as pressing down on the saddle while plucking a string improves the sound dramatically. (Sill not as "bassy (?) as the disc stuck to the outside of the box though).
Check out the attached video below...
Started by J. D. Woods in Performances, How to Play, Lessons, Concerts. Last reply by Southern Ray on Friday. 8 Replies 1 Like
Started by Southern Ray in Other stuff - off topic, fun stuff, whatever. Last reply by Southern Ray on Friday. 6 Replies 0 Likes
Started by J. D. Woods in Performances, How to Play, Lessons, Concerts. Last reply by BrianQ. on Thursday. 4 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Rich Butters in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Crazed Fandango Apr 22. 4 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Nomad Jack in Performances, How to Play, Lessons, Concerts. Last reply by J. D. Woods Apr 17. 7 Replies 2 Likes
Started by Moritz Voegeli in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Southern Ray Apr 14. 6 Replies 2 Likes
Started by Timothy Hunter in Other stuff - off topic, fun stuff, whatever. Last reply by Timothy Hunter Apr 10. 14 Replies 3 Likes
Started by Tom T in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Southern Ray Apr 9. 9 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Southern Ray in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Southern Ray Apr 4. 7 Replies 1 Like
Started by Timothy Hunter in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Southern Ray Mar 27. 1 Reply 2 Likes
Started by Taffy Evans in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Southern Ray Mar 10. 1 Reply 3 Likes
Started by Cigar Box Nation in Feature Articles. Last reply by BrianQ. Mar 9. 4 Replies 3 Likes
Started by Ghostbuttons in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Timothy Hunter Mar 9. 5 Replies 1 Like
Started by Justin Stanchfield in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Taffy Evans Mar 8. 6 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Ken I in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Brian partington Mar 8. 8 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Southern Ray in Cool gear discussion - that's not cigar box related. Last reply by Southern Ray Mar 6. 5 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Taffy Evans in Other stuff - off topic, fun stuff, whatever. Last reply by Taffy Evans Mar 5. 4 Replies 2 Likes
Started by Justin Stanchfield in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Carl Floyd Mar 1. 15 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Joe in Performances, How to Play, Lessons, Concerts. Last reply by Carl Floyd Feb 29. 13 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Chance in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion. Last reply by Southern Ray Feb 22. 12 Replies 1 Like
Posted by Vlad on March 31, 2024 at 11:48pm 0 Comments 1 Like
Posted by Vlad on March 6, 2024 at 2:32am 5 Comments 2 Likes
Posted by billy jones bluez on February 28, 2024 at 2:09pm 0 Comments 0 Likes
Posted by billy jones bluez on February 17, 2024 at 11:00pm 0 Comments 0 Likes
Posted by Vlad on February 11, 2024 at 1:06am 1 Comment 1 Like
May 11, 2024 from 11am to 8pm – Speakeasy Grill
0 Comments 0 LikesMay 30, 2024 from 6:30pm to 10pm – The Casual Pint of Huntsville
0 Comments 0 Likes© 2024 Created by Ben "C. B. Gitty" Baker. Powered by
Cigar Box Nation is presented by C. B. Gitty Crafter Supply, your one-stop-shop for Cigar Box Guitar parts and accessories!