Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on June 14, 2010 at 12:46pm

I PREFER to sue the neck thru method. And I will have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised at the sound that did come from my "Crow" build. Look for the "build a cgb in 1 hour" videos.
Sound better? Well, I dunno, but it is a different sound.
I guess I would have to say I prefer the tone from the neck thru, but go ahead and build one and decide for yourself ....it'll only take an hour er so.


Matt

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Permalink Reply by Zandi Z on June 15, 2010 at 2:05am

I have been building both.
i am a novice, so i started with with 'over the top' neck on Arturo Fuentes boxes.
I was very surprised at the depth of sound and great sustain even with pine neck and nylon strings. but, they are very quiet without amplification...still, good for noodling, meditating or for someone who is learning.

through the body necks sound louder.

i found that 'tone' was greatly affected by the scale length....keeping scale lengths proportional to box length (and width, too, if possible) seems (to me) to produce the richest sounds or tones, regardless....zandi z.

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Permalink Reply by Zandi Z on June 15, 2010 at 2:45am

Gee, Randy, that is an awesome build !!! i find that i am downright unwilling to cut holes in boxes or tins... won't try it unless i have a duplicate box on hand. i have been scheming and dreaming of doing an 'under the body' one, though...seems logical for the reasons you say. you have set the bar very high with that build !!!! i feel very encouraged to try it, now..thanks...zandi z.
Randy S. Bretz said:

Another option is running the frame under the box. No need to cut the box or attaching the neck to the soundboard -top, which would take away sound vibrations.

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Permalink Reply by Brian "Pork Pie" Anderson on June 15, 2010 at 2:49am

This is my personal opinion only, I have one CBG built by the King that has the neck screwed under the lid....I dont like the sound it produces. The guitar principles are the same whether you are making a 5000 dollar dreadnought or a 20 doallar CBG, you want the top to vibrate, this produces the best sound.

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Permalink Reply by Zandi Z on June 15, 2010 at 3:20am

Brian, i agree with you , to a point....however, if a person ignores PROPORTIONS---of scale length to 'stick length' and to box length--- then, producing any kind of 'good' sound becomes an up-hill battle. it can be done, but requires greater 'effort'....
then, there is the notion that 'good sound' is a subjective experience...
i like resonance, some folks like dissonance.
either way, the EFFICIENT transmission of energy is greatly enhanced by paying attention to proportions from the start......zandi z.

Brian "Pork Pie" Anderson said:

This is my personal opinion only, I have one CBG built by the King that has the neck screwed under the lid....I dont like the sound it produces. The guitar principles are the same whether you are making a 5000 dollar dreadnought or a 20 doallar CBG, you want the top to vibrate, this produces the best sound.

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Permalink Reply by Crow on June 15, 2010 at 3:26am

well, i think that i am pretty much "the guy" that builds exclusively with the "ON BOX" approach, so i'll throw my 2 cents in...

i have built and played both neck-on-box and neck-thru-boxs. here are my thoughts:

-------------------

NECK-THRU-BOX:

-it is POSSIBLE to aquire better tone and volume with a neck-thru-box build
-there are MANY more spots for error to occur:
-the cigar box sides have holes or slots which weaken the integrity of the box and may adversley affect tone
-the resonating face which supports the bridge may cause the tone and note to vary or warble while ringing through due to a weak face board or an uneven seat between the bridge and face
-the shallowing of the neck stick may cause integrity issues
-the tail and string stops become more complicated, unless the tail of the stick exits the body at the bottom as well, cauing a second weak spot in the box

in general, its a more complicated build, and theres a lot more error to make.

-----------------------------------

NECK-ON-BOX

-the stick IS the instrument
-the stick can be transplanted repeatedly from one resonator to the next for experimentation
-the stick can be replaced easily with a better-built neck when ready
-all the electrics can be inside the box and are not integrated with the stick at all
-the entire instrument can be re-built and improved on-the-fly, as the box has not been cut, and all the hardware is on the stick
-the bridge and nut are on the same plane, making it very easy to adjust for preferred playing height of strings
-the stick is not weakened by shallowing or cuts, so the sustain may be better than other build types

in all, it's easier to get desirable results and fewer unexpected problems with the stick-on-box method. that's what i've refined it for - ease of build and reliability of results.

---------------------------------------

no matter what you do, make sure you set attainable goals that you can learn from, then play the hell out of it!!!

have a great day!

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Permalink Reply by NoxTerran on June 16, 2010 at 1:50am

4 words describe my thoughts on the subject

TO
EACH
IS
OWN

i am with crow, i prefer the stick on method for NUMEROUS reasons but i have messed around with a couple stick throughs and i flat out hate them. i LOVE my neck on's though, my double neck has both necks on the same box. long story short you need to make a few "crow" builds, a few neck throughs, a few what ever builds and see what you like cuz ultimatly, you have to live with it lol

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Permalink Reply by Boogie Man on June 16, 2010 at 9:55am

Wow! That's a beautiful work of art! You're very talented!
Randy S. Bretz said:

Another option is running the frame under the box. No need to cut the box or attaching the neck to the soundboard -top, which would take away sound vibrations.

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Permalink Reply by Boogie Man on June 16, 2010 at 9:59am

Thanks for the feedback, Zandi. I could try neck on top, and if I don't like it, I can always change it! :)

Zandi Z said:

I have been building both.
i am a novice, so i started with with 'over the top' neck on Arturo Fuentes boxes.
I was very surprised at the depth of sound and great sustain even with pine neck and nylon strings. but, they are very quiet without amplification...still, good for noodling, meditating or for someone who is learning.

through the body necks sound louder.

i found that 'tone' was greatly affected by the scale length....keeping scale lengths proportional to box length (and width, too, if possible) seems (to me) to produce the richest sounds or tones, regardless....zandi z.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Boogie Man on June 16, 2010 at 10:00am

Thanks, Matt. You're rigth. It wouldn't hurt to try it.

Matt Towe said:

I PREFER to sue the neck thru method. And I will have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised at the sound that did come from my "Crow" build. Look for the "build a cgb in 1 hour" videos.
Sound better? Well, I dunno, but it is a different sound.
I guess I would have to say I prefer the tone from the neck thru, but go ahead and build one and decide for yourself ....it'll only take an hour er so.


Matt

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Boogie Man on June 16, 2010 at 10:02am

Thanks, Crow. Your reasoning makes sense.

Crow said:

well, i think that i am pretty much "the guy" that builds exclusively with the "ON BOX" approach, so i'll throw my 2 cents in...

i have built and played both neck-on-box and neck-thru-boxs. here are my thoughts:

-------------------

NECK-THRU-BOX:

-it is POSSIBLE to aquire better tone and volume with a neck-thru-box build
-there are MANY more spots for error to occur:
-the cigar box sides have holes or slots which weaken the integrity of the box and may adversley affect tone
-the resonating face which supports the bridge may cause the tone and note to vary or warble while ringing through due to a weak face board or an uneven seat between the bridge and face
-the shallowing of the neck stick may cause integrity issues
-the tail and string stops become more complicated, unless the tail of the stick exits the body at the bottom as well, cauing a second weak spot in the box

in general, its a more complicated build, and theres a lot more error to make.

-----------------------------------

NECK-ON-BOX

-the stick IS the instrument
-the stick can be transplanted repeatedly from one resonator to the next for experimentation
-the stick can be replaced easily with a better-built neck when ready
-all the electrics can be inside the box and are not integrated with the stick at all
-the entire instrument can be re-built and improved on-the-fly, as the box has not been cut, and all the hardware is on the stick
-the bridge and nut are on the same plane, making it very easy to adjust for preferred playing height of strings
-the stick is not weakened by shallowing or cuts, so the sustain may be better than other build types

in all, it's easier to get desirable results and fewer unexpected problems with the stick-on-box method. that's what i've refined it for - ease of build and reliability of results.

---------------------------------------

no matter what you do, make sure you set attainable goals that you can learn from, then play the hell out of it!!!

have a great day!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by BenBob on June 16, 2010 at 10:44am

The points about weaking the neck by cutting away for the top are well taken. I was worried about that, so I glued the cutout piece on the other side of the neck. But, I think there's still an awfully weak spot under the end of the fingerboard, right where the neck meets the body. I've been content with the tone, but I think sustain suffered a lot because of that weak spot in the neck.

I still like the neck-through, but I'm going to use a lap joint on the next one.

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