Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Zant on December 9, 2010 at 2:28pm

I use Bill Jehle's fret calculator to figure out the proper fret distance. I then print out the calculations, and 'build' a fretboard in my graphic program. I generally use a 25.5" scale. If you have a good graphics program, building a fretboard is relatively easy. I start with the first box, which is the width of the fretboard (usually 1.75") x 25.5". I duplicate this box, then make it the length of the nut to first fret. Duplicate, but this is nut to second....continue till you get all the frets, then I select all the boxes and align them to the nut. This gives me an image that is exactly the fret layout. Since I have a giant printer, then I go ahead and print this out onto paper. I trim it exactly, then use a little 3M super 77 adhesive to adhere it to the neck. I already have the scale length start and endpoint (nut and bridge) penciled onto the neck. I line up the nut with the pencil line, making sure that it is level and true. Then I use my XACTO and a true right angle, and scribe each line in the center (including the nut!) Remove the paper and put the neck into my miter box and begin to slot the neck. How many do you need to have? well 22 is the optimal length (I think) but you could get away with 12 (that will give you an octave) I guess. Why is your box determining the scale length? Unless you only have a short length for a neck, then I don't see why you can't make the scale the length you want. I don't know much, but if I can help I will.

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Permalink Reply by Don Thompson on December 9, 2010 at 2:35pm

Justin, Quite frankly you are over thinking this. Fingerboards overlap the body of guitars, just because the neck stops at the fourteenth fret doesn't mean you can't make the fingerboard longer over the body and have more frets. Some guitar necks even stop at the 12th fret and the figerboard extends past that. The scale length stays the same no matter how far out the neck sticks out from the guitar. That is one of the purposes of the fingerboard, more frets. Why does a guitar have a cut away? The lower bout shaped differently than the upper, to allow access to those upper frets I am talking about.  Use a fingerboard and it all makes sense.

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Permalink Reply by John Zant on December 9, 2010 at 2:50pm

see, I knew I forgot something....the first one I made had an overlapping fingerboard glued onto the through stick....and it sounds super....thanks for pointing out my goofiness there....I knew I shouldn't have even attempted a reply...

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on December 9, 2010 at 3:47pm

Buuut, 17 frets can be fine. It doesn't have to overlap.I usually only do about 18.

 

 

Matt

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Permalink Reply by BenBob on December 9, 2010 at 4:06pm

There are 3 factors that interact here: Scale length, bridge placement, and number of frets to the body.

 

Where do you want the theoretical bridge? Measure from there to where the neck will join the body, and subtract that from your scale length. Look on your fret calculations for that scale length and see what fret will be closest to the neck joint.

 

Example: I want the bridge at least 1/4 of the box length from the tail for acoustic reasons. Knock along the length of the box and you can get an idea of how the top resonates from different places. Also, don't forget that the actual bridge will be 1/4" or so further toward the tail than the actual scale length places it, for compensation.

So, on a 10" box, say I want the theoretical bridge 7.25" from the neck joint, and I want a 24.5" scale.

 

24.5 - 7.25 = 17.25

 

The stewmac calculator for 24.5" puts the 21st fret at 17.216" from the nut, so that will put my bridge right about where I want it, and I'll have as many frets to play on as my telecaster has.

 

If that's too many frets, you can shorten the scale and/or move the bridge towards the tail. If it isn't enough frets, you can increase the scale and/or move the bridge away from the tail.

 

I rarely play over the 17th fret, but an avid rock lead player might not be happy with less than two full octaves (24).

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Permalink Reply by Justin on December 10, 2010 at 4:48am

My box is about 10.25" long. I decided that the bridge would look right about 1.5" from the end of the box. So that gives me 8.75" from the bridge to where the neck comes out of the box. If my scale length is 24.5", that leaves 15.75" of neck sticking out of the box. (Not counting the head) Looking at it, it just seems awfully short to me. I could easily make a longer neck, but the only way to get more neck sticking out of the box would be to move the bridge further up the box. But in order to leave room for the pick up, sound holes and still leave some box lid intact, I don't have much room to move the bridge around.

I may be puzzling over nothing. It *seems* short to me, but I'm not a guitarist. So maybe it's not. I guess I could dig my Ibanez electric out of the attic and measure it up and compare my dimensions to a proper guitar dimensions.

 

I guess I just brought it up to hear what you guys had to say on the subject of neck length vs. how many playable frets the instrument has.

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Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on December 10, 2010 at 5:40am

If you are a new player, you're probably going to be happy playing only the first octave of notes for a while. Also, as a new builder, it is harder to get perfect intonation up in those 12+ frets anyway.  So don't sweat it.

When you get to be a better player, you can build another one with more frets!

 

 

 

Justin said:

My box is about 10.25" long. I decided that the bridge would look right about 1.5" from the end of the box. So that gives me 8.75" from the bridge to where the neck comes out of the box. If my scale length is 24.5", that leaves 15.75" of neck sticking out of the box. (Not counting the head) Looking at it, it just seems awfully short to me. I could easily make a longer neck, but the only way to get more neck sticking out of the box would be to move the bridge further up the box. But in order to leave room for the pick up, sound holes and still leave some box lid intact, I don't have much room to move the bridge around.

I may be puzzling over nothing. It *seems* short to me, but I'm not a guitarist. So maybe it's not. I guess I could dig my Ibanez electric out of the attic and measure it up and compare my dimensions to a proper guitar dimensions.

 

I guess I just brought it up to hear what you guys had to say on the subject of neck length vs. how many playable frets the instrument has.

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Permalink Reply by Justin on December 10, 2010 at 7:48am

Thanks Diane. You're right, as a new builder, I should not sweat the details so much. As for a new player, you'd be right again, if I were making it for myself. I can't carry a tune in a bucket, it doesn't matter how many frets I put on it. But I'm building this as a present for my brother, and he's already a pretty fair guitar player. So I'm sort of shooting for a playable instrument. I'm ok with the carpentry part of this. I've been working with wood for a long time and I'm fortunate to have a fully stocked wood shop. I feel confident I can make a thing that looks like a CBG and make it nice. It's the musical end that hard for me. The intonation, scale length, fretting etc. That's all new to me, so I'm just doing my research, asking you kind folks lots of dumb questions. For instance, I learned today that the tuners I'm going to use aren't made to work with the 3/4 wood my neck is made from. So I'm going to have to thin the head a bit. Had I thought to check that ahead of time, I could have removed material from the head with the jointer, no problem. But I didn't know it until after I had scarfed my head and glued it up. That little angle is going to make thinning the head a bit trickier on the jointer. Lots of little mistakes to overcome. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on December 10, 2010 at 8:08am

Oooh - been there, done that on the headstock thickness thing.  I think we all have!

 

Justin said:

Thanks Diane. You're right, as a new builder, I should not sweat the details so much. As for a new player, you'd be right again, if I were making it for myself. I can't carry a tune in a bucket, it doesn't matter how many frets I put on it. But I'm building this as a present for my brother, and he's already a pretty fair guitar player. So I'm sort of shooting for a playable instrument. I'm ok with the carpentry part of this. I've been working with wood for a long time and I'm fortunate to have a fully stocked wood shop. I feel confident I can make a thing that looks like a CBG and make it nice. It's the musical end that hard for me. The intonation, scale length, fretting etc. That's all new to me, so I'm just doing my research, asking you kind folks lots of dumb questions. For instance, I learned today that the tuners I'm going to use aren't made to work with the 3/4 wood my neck is made from. So I'm going to have to thin the head a bit. Had I thought to check that ahead of time, I could have removed material from the head with the jointer, no problem. But I didn't know it until after I had scarfed my head and glued it up. That little angle is going to make thinning the head a bit trickier on the jointer. Lots of little mistakes to overcome. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Mungo Park on December 10, 2010 at 8:47am

I built 2 for my kids, one 14" and 16" scale:

[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f333/mookie098/P1010986.jpg[/IMG]

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Permalink Reply by Wayne Bigler on December 11, 2010 at 10:36am

Justin, Save yourself all that anquish and headache.  Dig your Ibanez out of the attic and mimic that.  Make a layout stick from it and it'll make short work of the fret and bridge layout.  Why do all those calculations when someone else has already done them for you.  It would be good to look at the Ibanez for other reasons as well, i.e., "headstock too thick for the tuners" problem. 

Justin said:

My box is about 10.25" long. I decided that the bridge would look right about 1.5" from the end of the box. So that gives me 8.75" from the bridge to where the neck comes out of the box. If my scale length is 24.5", that leaves 15.75" of neck sticking out of the box. (Not counting the head) Looking at it, it just seems awfully short to me. I could easily make a longer neck, but the only way to get more neck sticking out of the box would be to move the bridge further up the box. But in order to leave room for the pick up, sound holes and still leave some box lid intact, I don't have much room to move the bridge around.

I may be puzzling over nothing. It *seems* short to me, but I'm not a guitarist. So maybe it's not. I guess I could dig my Ibanez electric out of the attic and measure it up and compare my dimensions to a proper guitar dimensions.

 

I guess I just brought it up to hear what you guys had to say on the subject of neck length vs. how many playable frets the instrument has.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on December 12, 2010 at 5:53am

Besides, the attic is no place for a guitar. Get it out of there!

I think copying is a good way to start. Keeps you from making simple mistakes or hurting your head overthinking it. Doesnt work out, do it again!

And of course, Have fun!

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