Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Roadkill a.k.a. John Maw on November 19, 2010 at 12:21pm

Hi Michael. Thanks for the help. If you have been doing this for about a year then to me you are an expert and I you obviously have much more experience than I do. The question that I have is "what is low" and "what is high" because at the moment I don't actually know if what I have is low or high. It would be really useful to have some guidance on this.

Incidentally re. Julz's suggestion, I tried swapping the strings about so that I was using the lowest three from a set of six instead of 346 as I had previously. I can't say that the result was any improvement and probably slightly the opposite. I assume that the need for greater tension to tune the thicker string to the same pitch overcame the advantage of the heavier string against the finger. I think that for the moment I will go back to using the 3,4 and 6 as before.

Anyway, thanks to all for the help.

Permalink Reply by Mama Mojo on November 21, 2010 at 8:23am

John, can you shoot a pic of the side of the neck and bridge, and one at the nut to give us a sense of what the string hwight looks like? that is really going to be the best way of helping you with the action issue. Darren at Back Porch mojo has a YouTube video of how he does the nut on fretted instruments, and he goes a little bit into the action issue at the bridge. it might help you. In my experience, he is spot on with his assessments and recommendations. the nut should only be as high as whatever height allows you to finger the strings at the highest point on the neck without deadening because it is hitting the fingerboard. You might want to think about it in terms of going into a guitar shop and playing a guitar with barre chords all the way up the neck to see how the action is set. If the strings thud when you reach, let's say, the 12 or 15th fret or on up, then the action at the bridge level is too low. The same is going to apply on a fretless instrument. That would be considered low action. Slightly above that would be medium and so on.... Hope this helps!

John H. Maw said:

Hi Michael. Thanks for the help. If you have been doing this for about a year then to me you are an expert and I you obviously have much more experience than I do. The question that I have is "what is low" and "what is high" because at the moment I don't actually know if what I have is low or high. It would be really useful to have some guidance on this.

Incidentally re. Julz's suggestion, I tried swapping the strings about so that I was using the lowest three from a set of six instead of 346 as I had previously. I can't say that the result was any improvement and probably slightly the opposite. I assume that the need for greater tension to tune the thicker string to the same pitch overcame the advantage of the heavier string against the finger. I think that for the moment I will go back to using the 3,4 and 6 as before.

Anyway, thanks to all for the help.

Permalink Reply by Roadkill a.k.a. John Maw on November 21, 2010 at 11:37am

Hi Mama Mojo. Thanks for the offer of help. I will take pics tomorrow in daylight (such as there is daylight in the UK at this time of year). I am suffering from the "bandsaw circuit breaker blues" at the moment, just as I am trying to making a piece to go under the neck and allow me to raise it to give me more flexibility with the hight of the bridge relative to the fingerboard. Again, appreciate the help.

Permalink Reply by Roadkill a.k.a. John Maw on November 22, 2010 at 2:35am

Hi Mama. Here are some pics that I took of the guitar which I hope may give a clue as to what the problem is, unless the problem is my playing of course.

This one shows that hight at the nut.

This shows the bridge (sorry that the ruler isn't very clear). The bridge has a 3mm brass rod for a saddle with a piezo strip underneath.

Shot of where the neck enters the box and also the bridge again. I intend to try raising the neck so that the fingerboard is above the level of the box (and then increasing the hight of the bridge to match).

Overall shot of the box and part of the neck.

The neck is fixed to a strut inside the box. I was thinking of putting this piece in between the neck and the strut which should raise the neck so that the thickness of the fingerboard is above the body. I did have a look at the video about setting the nut. Very useful and lots of other great information there. Thanks very much.

Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on November 22, 2010 at 3:13am

John, it looks like your nut is fine to me. I would lower the strings at the bridge end some, not a lot though, I have about 3/16" at the 12 fret marking (burnt line) But my nut height maybe different which would make the bridge height different etc., Trial and error. This one has a little buzz fretted at 2 and 3 so I would not go any lower that 3/16" at 12. I still suggest playing more and getting a feel for your instrument. The bare finger fretting will always be a bit muted over a fretted neck. Nice looking guitar though.

Permalink Reply by Roadkill a.k.a. John Maw on November 22, 2010 at 3:52am

Hi Michael. Really appreciate the suggestions. The reason for wanting to lift the neck is so that I have more flexibility with the bridge height. At the moment I can't really lower it any more because of the pickup inside. With the neck higher I will have more freedom to change the height relative to the fingerboard. Thanks again for your comments.

Permalink Reply by Mama Mojo on November 22, 2010 at 9:18am

John - thanks for posting the pics. I agree with Michael re the nut height. Looks good to me..... I would also try to lower the bridge just a tad bit if possible and see if that helps. I do agree that the added height of the fingerboard would solve your issues.... hope this helps!

John H. Maw said:

Hi Michael. Really appreciate the suggestions. The reason for wanting to lift the neck is so that I have more flexibility with the bridge height. At the moment I can't really lower it any more because of the pickup inside. With the neck higher I will have more freedom to change the height relative to the fingerboard. Thanks again for your comments.

Permalink Reply by Roadkill a.k.a. John Maw on November 22, 2010 at 10:47am

Hi Mama. Thank you so much for all the help and also to everyone else who made suggestions. I am not allowed out tomorrow to play (apparently have to do some work and earn a little money) but should be able to do the neck and bridge adjustments on Wednesday and will let you know how that goes.

I also think that Michael makes a good point about practice. The point is that when you start you don't always know the difference between what is possible with experience and what will not work at all. Now I know that I should persevere so I will. Thanks again.

Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on November 23, 2010 at 5:53am

Looks like you are on the right track, I like the idea of raising the neck/fingerboard also. I made the same mistake on my first one, flush neck.

John H. Maw said:

Hi Mama. Thank you so much for all the help and also to everyone else who made suggestions. I am not allowed out tomorrow to play (apparently have to do some work and earn a little money) but should be able to do the neck and bridge adjustments on Wednesday and will let you know how that goes.

I also think that Michael makes a good point about practice. The point is that when you start you don't always know the difference between what is possible with experience and what will not work at all. Now I know that I should persevere so I will. Thanks again.

Permalink Reply by Roadkill a.k.a. John Maw on November 25, 2010 at 8:03am

Just a little update. I raised the neck yesterday. The fingerboard is now 6mm above the level of the box (the thickness of the fingerboard). I put a temporary spacer under the bridge and I can play with the thickness of this in order to find the right height and then make a new bridge once that is established. The other benefit is that the under-saddle pickup now sounds more powerful, presumably because there is more downward pressure on the saddle and bridge and I no longer hit the lid with the finger picks.

Still more adjustments needed (may have to be next week) but a step in the right direction. Another big thank you to everyone for the help.

Permalink Reply by Roadkill a.k.a. John Maw on November 26, 2010 at 4:01am

Just thought I would put up some pics of the instrument with the neck raised. It still needs some adjustment (neck angle in particular) but that will probably have to wait until next week.

The neck with the insert under it (the half-round end is visible). The piece of wood runs all the way under, glued to the original neck piece for strength. Also fills the gap that would have been left by raising the neck by 6mm.

The front view showing the piece of wood that is currently sitting under the bridge to raise it up. I will play with the height and when I think it is right I will make a new bridge (and probably decide to change it again the next day).

The guitar with the rhythm section

Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on November 26, 2010 at 6:23am

Good to hear its getting better, fine tuning is half the fun. Just remember if you angle the neck the bridge will need to be raised again, so do it before making another bridge. I angled one of mine and it was to much bridge height and the string angle to tail was all off. Each little change effects so much. Have fun and happy holiday weekend.


John H. Maw said:

Just thought I would put up some pics of the instrument with the neck raised. It still needs some adjustment (neck angle in particular) but that will probably have to wait until next week.

The neck with the insert under it (the half-round end is visible). The piece of wood runs all the way under, glued to the original neck piece for strength. Also fills the gap that would have been left by raising the neck by 6mm.

The front view showing the piece of wood that is currently sitting under the bridge to raise it up. I will play with the height and when I think it is right I will make a new bridge (and probably decide to change it again the next day).

The guitar with the rhythm section

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