Hi all,
On my current build, I decided to construct my own box with some quality wood. But I was curious to know if anyone had suggestions on joinery for the best sound and strength. I went with dovetails just for the fun of it, although I know cigar boxes traditionally use box/finger joints. Any suggestions or ideas would be welcome.
Thanks!
Tags:
Good topic.
I think a lot depends on the thickness of the material in question, as well as the overall design, loading etc.
I like the dovetail joints, but thats a thick and bulky box for acoustic imo. At about 1/4" thickness box or finger joints often work well. I have seen them done on thinner material but prefer machine made joints at that point personally.
but working with the thinner stuff for acoustic instruments, I usually prefer traditional lutherie style butted joints reinforced internally with traditional "linings" It makes for a very compact and light, yet strong joint where appropriate.
Thanks, Mark. When you say 'linings,' what does that usually entail?
In re-reading, my previous post would make slightly more sense if I placed a comma after "At about 1/4" thickness"
Anyway, the term "linings" in this context refers to the thin strips used in the inside corners of most acoustic instruments. Especially necessary when you get into the well under 1/8" thick materials commonly used in acoustic lutherie. They may be plain strips, or "kerfed" which is a bunch of cuts partially through the strip to allow easily bending to fit into curved body instruments.
For box building, if necessary- plain strips would of course be fine.
I personally would consider a box with 1/4" sides and 1/8" top and back a maximum dimension for acoustic builds. And that design should require no linings.
But that's just me. Experiment and learn!
Lining examples:
Some may call it kerfing. Semantics I guess.
In traditional classic and vintage instruments it is common to see plain thin flexible strips typically called "linings"
I believe "Kerfed lining" would be considered a more "modern" building technique, but I ain't no Stradivarius!
Either way, its probably not relevant unless building with far thinner materials than most being discussed here.
Hi Chris, here's my contribution. I feel uncomfortable using the words "overkill" and "overthinking" to describe a persons work effort. I see it as somebody going that extra mile to make a better product, or that extra bit of thought that make the challenge more interesting. Anyway that's me. Now.................
This joint is a tongue and groove. I used to use it when I first started with CBG's when using thinner side timbers quick and easy to assemble and no clamping reqiured. The other I use is a simple butt joint, this needs a reinforcing corner block as one its gluing to endgrain, and that does not make the strongest of joints. Now that I have thought about this I think I will return to T & G joints for quickness on multiple builds.
Your box is looking good, but as already mentioned, and if I may say, the top and back could do with a bit more flexibility. The sides do not matter that much.
Just touching bass again here a moment.
When I introduced the word 'overkill' to the discussion, what I was trying to imply was that it was much stronger than was physically necessary for the rigors that I'd expect an average cigar box guitar to sustain. As best as I am aware, if the box doesn't flex, and there's no gap to rattle and vibrate, that's what's necessary to produce a happily functional CBG.
But of course, we are artisans and we take a lot of pride in what we do, whether it's our first CBG or our two-hundredth, and I in no way was trying to imply that someone exercising their woodworking craft in a fashion which they found challenging or beautiful was a waste of time. It sounds as if that's how some people were interpreting it, and that's certainly not how I meant it.
Hi John. No worries...I got your meaning and I appreciate your insights. I used the term myself as you're right, it's definitely a stronger joint than is needed for a few strings worth of tension! :) Plus, the neck runs through the body and the bridge will anchor into it anyways.
Really, the project was just a fun way to practice dovetails and add a design element that I hadn't seen on a CBG, but I wasn't sure if certain joinery might offer any other structural or acoustic benefits. So yours and all the other comments have been very much appreciated!
Really helpful, thanks. I chose padauk for its look and I knew it to be a tonewood, and I bought the thinnest I could easily find, but it's still pretty thick. I think I need to invest in some planes!
Using a bandsaw, I start with three quarter inch stock and resale it on my bandsaw by standing it on its side. I bookend the tops and back and cut it to either one fourth or one eighth of an inch thick. The sides are one fourth inch thick. Making your own boxes gives you a lot more control. I have found most cigar boxes to be too small, so am making the tops 8 inches by 11 inches (same as a piece of typing paper). I’m experimenting with different combinations of tone woods. To be determined how it all turns out.
Awesome. I'm still in the process of figuring out 'how is this box going to sound different?' using whatever I get my mitts on.
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