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Easy Introduction To Hide Glue

So maybe you're like me...you started building these Cigar Box instruments but have also branched out into other areas of instrument making/repair. You quickly learned that in order to do it "right" you need to figure out this whole hide glue thing. You go on Stewmac, checkout that glue pot for $115, add on the glue...it starts to add up. You keep putting it off saying, "I'll get it before that next project." Good news! You can start using hide glue for just $25! I found this simple hide glue kit from the International Violin Company, based in Baltimore. It comes with a warming plate, two jars to make a double-bath, 1/4 lb. of hide glue, applicator brushes, and best of all...easy to read instructions written in English! Of course you can mix up a batch in a small crock pot, but its nice to get it all together and know that it was meant to go together. Let me know if you have any luck with it.

http://www.internationalviolin.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=T823

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Permalink Reply by Ben on October 13, 2010 at 5:20pm

Hide glue usually comes in crystallized form and needs to be heated and mixed with water to be used. It is so popular with instrument building because of its strength as well as its reversible nature. You need well-fitted joints for it but as it dries it contracts and actually pulls the joint together. It can also be removed with heat (steam) and/or denatured alcohol. If you ever look up any neck-reset projects, that's how they get the neck off of the instrument. Oh yeah, I believe its made out of cow hide.

Michael R Cossey said:

Ok, very newbie question, what is hide glue and what is it used for on a CBG?

I won't even put my mane to this one...

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Permalink Reply by ChickenboneJohn on October 13, 2010 at 5:35pm

HIde glue is THE traditional woodworking and lutherie glue. It's made from animal hide and comes in granules, to which you add water, then carefully heat to get the glue ready for use. It's cheap, very strong, doesn't creep under stress and is reversible (good for repairs). It's been around thousands of years and is still the choice of many luthiers.

need

Michael R Cossey said:

Ok, very newbie question, what is hide glue and what is it used for on a CBG?

I won't even put my mane to this one...

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Permalink Reply by Ben on October 13, 2010 at 11:12pm

Ditto.
Also we didn't mention this, but I don't know of anyone who thinks that liquefied hide glue (sold like wood glue) is acceptable. Just stay away!

ChickenboneJohn said:

HIde glue is THE traditional woodworking and lutherie glue. It's made from animal hide and comes in granules, to which you add water, then carefully heat to get the glue ready for use. It's cheap, very strong, doesn't creep under stress and is reversible (good for repairs). It's been around thousands of years and is still the choice of many luthiers.

need

Michael R Cossey said:
Ok, very newbie question, what is hide glue and what is it used for on a CBG?

I won't even put my mane to this one...

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Permalink Reply by Michael R Cossey on October 14, 2010 at 2:09pm

Thanks for the info on hide glue and uses........Mike

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Permalink Reply by granpaw on January 4, 2011 at 4:32am

Just to add a caution, older instruments all used hide glue, which leads to a disaster if left out in wet weather. I know due to having two old fiddles that fell apart after getting wet. I'll never be that stupid again.

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Permalink Reply by Ben on January 4, 2011 at 5:25am

Very true. A lot of people find that to be a bonus though. Titebond III is perminent whether you like it or not! Hide glue allows for easy, clean repairs.

granpaw said:

Just to add a caution, older instruments all used hide glue, which leads to a disaster if left out in wet weather. I know due to having two old fiddles that fell apart after getting wet. I'll never be that stupid again.

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Permalink Reply by Mister Scott on January 4, 2011 at 9:51am

Does this mean the Titebond hide glue can't be removed with heat/water?

Ben said:

Also we didn't mention this, but I don't know of anyone who thinks that liquefied hide glue (sold like wood glue) is acceptable. Just stay away!

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Permalink Reply by Ben on January 4, 2011 at 10:24am

Scotty, I believe it can be reversed but the problem with it is that it also has the consistency of wood glues (additives to keep it liquid at room temperature) and will creep when clamped. The awesome thing about going from powder and water is that when mixed correctly, it has a very similar consistency to water. All you have to do is get everything "wet" and clamp it.

Scotty C. said:

Does this mean the Titebond hide glue can't be removed with heat/water?

Ben said:

Also we didn't mention this, but I don't know of anyone who thinks that liquefied hide glue (sold like wood glue) is acceptable. Just stay away!

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Permalink Reply by Mister Scott on January 4, 2011 at 5:18pm

And with that statement, you have just sold me on using hide glue. Thanks, Ben...

Ben said:

Scotty, I believe it can be reversed but the problem with it is that it also has the consistency of wood glues (additives to keep it liquid at room temperature) and will creep when clamped. The awesome thing about going from powder and water is that when mixed correctly, it has a very similar consistency to water. All you have to do is get everything "wet" and clamp it.

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Permalink Reply by Ben on January 5, 2011 at 2:53am

It definitely has its uses. I will say it gets a little inconvenient because I have to plan out all the things I want to glue with it so that I don't have to waste time heating it up. Also, work in small batches because it spoils after about 2 weeks in the fridge. I mix mine in a 3/4oz jar (and have never used a full 3/4oz). Don't throw out your wood glue and super glue though. I still use those for other things that I plan to be fully permanent (like laminating pieces of wood together for necks).

Scotty C. said:

And with that statement, you have just sold me on using hide glue. Thanks, Ben...

Ben said:
Scotty, I believe it can be reversed but the problem with it is that it also has the consistency of wood glues (additives to keep it liquid at room temperature) and will creep when clamped. The awesome thing about going from powder and water is that when mixed correctly, it has a very similar consistency to water. All you have to do is get everything "wet" and clamp it.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Harrison on January 5, 2011 at 3:26pm

Ben, I got a hot plate from the thrift store and use it in my shop. It was about $10.

As a side note for 10 years I repaired all the instruments, string ,brass and woodwinds in our school district. Glad to be done with that phase of my life.

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Permalink Reply by Ben on January 5, 2011 at 5:46pm

I have become that person on a small scale. I don't really advertise it because my students keep me busy enough. I believe in showing the other teachers how to do it and let them have a go at it. I'm still enjoying it right now. I had a girl show up on Monday with a busted up violin. She didn't put her bow in the case correctly so when she forced it closed, the bow pushed down on the bridge and cracked the top the entire length of the instrument. Not only that, but that part then came unglued around the edge so that it could come completely off. Since the crack was with the grain, it made for a very clean repair. You really have to look for it now. I'm very proud of my work on that one. I can't tell you how many necks I reset once the weather gets hot and kids "forget" their instrument in the car. Everything comes undone!

Bob Harrison said:

Ben, I got a hot plate from the thrift store and use it in my shop. It was about $10.

As a side note for 10 years I repaired all the instruments, string ,brass and woodwinds in our school district. Glad to be done with that phase of my life.