Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jon Pruett on June 5, 2010 at 4:35pm

I'm about to start a neck with the small trunk of a maple tree that didn't make it through the winter in my backyard. Don't think it will be a problem - after all, since broomsticks, hardwood flooring, and aluminum channels all work, a tree branch or trunk should be just fine too. :)

I haven't concaved a neck on purpose to deal with string tension, but I had it happen on accident (cheap scrap pine neck) and salvaged the situation by building little risers for the frets. Looks neat, and sounds pretty good too.

And for the carved one piece bodies - absolutely give it a rip. Several folks around here are building amazing instruments like that. And for something else really cool, check out the salad bowl banjo's by Deep Creek Strings. Sure, they aren't a traditional cigar box instrument, but they are seriously amazing stuff.

So yea - no rules - and don't listen to anyone who might say "you can't do that". Just shock 'em when you show how it can be done.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Stephen Eklund on June 5, 2010 at 7:19pm

Thanks Jon, Totally cool.

More questions

To get a better/ louder acoustic sound would it be a good idea not to have the neck in contact with the top of the box? I was thinking of making a neck threw body but have the neck attached along the inside back of the box only. Strings would go over the bridge and go threw the neck wood at the bottom of the guitar. Was thinking of making a support going from under the bridge to the neck wood inside the box. Is this worth the extra trouble?

How much would painting and lacquer affect the over all tone? I'll de paper the box first. Has anyone tried good quality car paints?

Would using two cigar boxes one on top the other ( to make a thicker body) be worth it? Has anyone tried it?

Resonator question, has anyone tried to make one on the inside of the box out of tin? Oval shaped and stacked on top of each other with a small block of wood between each piece. Kinda looking like a heat sink.

Thanks again folks!

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on June 6, 2010 at 1:07am

i doubt you need two boxes for strength. the neck through is how i do it and i don't give any extra support to the box. just trim some of the neck inside the box under the sound board, maybe i go 4-5 mm down inside the box, if you see what i mean. also, i don't bother with taking the paper off but that's up to you; i do think the paper helps hold the box together in some cases. also, i don't glue the box to the neck, though i thought i was going to at first. what i do is strategically place screws that hold just about everything together and they go in different places for different guitars.

i've only built three so this just what i've learned so far, but i will say every time i finish one i feel smarter and dumb at the same time. one thing i would do personally, if i had a chunk of semi-fresh ash i would try and age it a little. carve out your rough neck (sounds like a good song title), then stick it in the sun for a week and even longer if you can wait. then again, i don't know how long you've had those branshes, i guess you could be way ahead of me on that.

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Permalink Reply by Hey, TURN IT DOWN! on June 6, 2010 at 1:45am

Flying V box body...yep...that would be cool. Do it up as a 4 stringer so you could keep the headstock design. Man, that would look NEAT!

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Permalink Reply by Don Goguen on June 6, 2010 at 1:48am

As to the question of the effects of finish on tone, yes it does have a marked affect on the tone. Still finish is a necessary compromise.

This was one of the main influences in my decision to start building my own guitars. You see plenty of guitars out there with a heavy coat of finish that are just acoustically dead (I'm talking about solid body electrics). So my first experiment was with a 3 string telecaster. I went with traditional materials, Ash body with a maple neck and fingerboard. I was simply amazed, after only using an oil finish topped with a extremely light lacquer top coat, at how resonate the guitar was. I have a bunch of different telecasters and this little one really impressed me. The result of this first project really influenced my design thinking. The next guitar I built was a full size telecaster using the same materials and finish in addition to the same design for pickups. This was confirmation of everything I had been reading about wood and finish on guitars.

I am in the middle of an experiment involving cigar boxes (I'm rather new to cigar boxes). I picked up a bunch of Rocky Patel boxes. The boxes are nice but the label is plain ugly (perhaps just too plain). Right off the bat I noticed the tone of the bottom of box was much more resonant and pleasing than the top (which has a label inside and out). I steamed the two labels off and it made a huge difference. So if you are going to de-paper the box, I think that is a good idea if you are trying to get the most out of the acoustics of the wood.

I don't even make acoustic instruments and this is an important factor to me when it come to the electric instruments I build for myself. So in my opinion, I think you are on the right track. As to automotive finishes, I use them for other bits in my builds like pickguards and clear coat for the brass hardware I make. I'd use a light coat of sanding sealer first on wood first and then as light a color coat(s) as you can get away with. The pickguard I made painted with black topped with a clear coat using automotive paint is holding up very well.

Paul Stephen Eklund said:

Thanks Jon, Totally cool.

More questions

How much would painting and lacquer affect the over all tone? I'll de paper the box first. Has anyone tried good quality car paints?

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on June 6, 2010 at 2:42am

Hi Paul.. Randy Bretz has done many tree limb neck builds.. Check out his pics.. I haven't, but check out this walking stick I'm doing
I've done a flying V shape from a The Edge battalion box too, I shifted the sides in closer at the neck end then split the tailpiece end and cut the top and bottom to fit. I pinched the idea from Ted Crocker..

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on June 6, 2010 at 2:50am

I've read threw a lot of the posts here and even did some searches. Totally cool info!

COOL! Thank you! Great start.

Has anyone concaved a neck to compensate for string tension? What would be a good starting radius to use for light gage strings?

Startin' to 'speriment with that. I dunno the math for string gauge, but I would imagine the higher the gauge, the less concave. I assume you mean the middle frets lower than the end frets. That is where I'm headed with this.

I keep reading there's no rules to a cigar box guitar. But would I be pushing it if I made some bodies out of one piece pine I I cut into a box like shape and put a top and back on? I really dig the old Danelectro Pro 1's and would like to make a mini version body for a 4 string.

No rules. Try it. If it tanks, build another. Not the answer you hoped for but hey, you da man on this box right. Do post your results so we can know how you did.

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on June 6, 2010 at 2:57am

How much would painting and lacquer affect the over all tone? I'll de paper the box first.

I've put clear coat on the box before and I have even shelac'd a paper box. Looked great and I don't think it did a lot to the tone. Remember, these thing don't have any stellar tone to begin with. They're cigar boxes... Depends on the wood (pressboard/paper, plywood, solid wood, thickness, glue, joints, etc). Some boxes sound better than others (Macanudo Portofino Cafe boxes are some of the most sought after for what its worth), but this is NEVER the rule. I've heard some great boxes made from paper PUNCH boxes, so...

You want a GREAT clearcoat. Deft brand clear gloss wood finish from Lowes. Spray or quart can (buy some laquer thinner tho) is my new preferred clearcoat. Its not polyU, its not shellac. Its nitrocellulose which is, as I can tell, much like what Gibson, Fender, etc use. Its the shiznit and easy to use. Dries REAL quick, can be buffed to a very high gloss and feels slick as snot.

-WY

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on June 6, 2010 at 3:16am

i'm quite sure each finish has it's own unique (however subtle it may be) sound. I was pretty happy with just the box on my last build but i often do a head scratch after reading some of the pro's on here just cuz it's way over my head. and i think there is one rule after all; have fun with it. that's the reason i'm doing this and i would guess 99.9% of us on here. even if some of you guys lose me every other post, it's fun trying to catch up.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Stephen Eklund on June 6, 2010 at 5:06am

Thanks again for the replies everyone.

Jonathan,
I was thinking of using both boxes together to add depth to the body. Overkill? LOL The ash has been off the tree for about a year now.

Tim King

LOL Make a flying V shaped box and go from there...

Don Goguen
I cringe when I see guitars covered with poly. Just personal taste but plastic on wood? I know car paints are acrylic so there’s the plastic thing again. But anything I’d cover in it would be electric first, acoustic second as far as purpose.

Jef Long

Totally cool! Right now it looks like you’d need gloves to play that. JK LOL

We Yates.
I’ve heard of nitocellulose finishes but have never tried to use the stuff.

Dig the no rules thing. LOL Looking to make a hollow body with more curves to it by cutting the shape out first. Then cutting out the inside so I’ll have one continues piece of wood for the sides. Probably around 1/2 inch thick. The top will be thin. Still debating weather or not to use thicker wood for the back.

Jonathan,
I don’t ever plan on being pro. Just a player!

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Permalink Reply by Paul Stephen Eklund on June 6, 2010 at 6:33am

More questions,

I've been playing with the fretfind 2-D cal. to figure out the distance between the last fret and the bridge on scales from 20 to 24 3/4. Is there any general rule on how close a bridge can be to the outside edge of a cigar box? Is more towards the middle better?

Has anyone tried attaching the back of the cigar box to a same size piece of wood? I was figuring if I rand the neck threw without touching the top of the box and added more wood to the back it might help increase volume.

Thanks again folks!

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on June 6, 2010 at 3:05pm

i believe the closer to the middle of the box the bridge is the more resonant it will be. and a double box sounds cool, it might have more bass sound, but i7m not sure about that.

Paul Stephen Eklund said:

More questions,

I've been playing with the fretfind 2-D cal. to figure out the distance between the last fret and the bridge on scales from 20 to 24 3/4. Is there any general rule on how close a bridge can be to the outside edge of a cigar box? Is more towards the middle better?

Has anyone tried attaching the back of the cigar box to a same size piece of wood? I was figuring if I rand the neck threw without touching the top of the box and added more wood to the back it might help increase volume.

Thanks again folks!

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