Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by william t branch on September 29, 2012 at 6:53pm

could you be winding the string too tight?  maybe going past the desired note by an entire octave.

Permalink Reply by Suspect Device on September 29, 2012 at 7:00pm

I'm still figuring some of this stuff out myself -and I may be missing something- but I think your problem with the GDG is that you are cranking that A-string (the .042) too high. You want to tune it to low G (below A) and you should be okay.

As for DAD, I just finished a CBG that was begging to be tuned that way. It sounds kind of like Robert Goulet, ...but in a good way. From a standard set of light acoustic strings, take the big fat E string  (.054) and tune it down to D (Aha! a use for some of those e-strings!) then A (.042) and D (.032). 

..It's really late here, but I think that's right.

Permalink Reply by OldNick on September 30, 2012 at 5:32am

SD,  are you trying to tune to GDG to match your singing?  Are you playing alone, or with other musicians?  If alone, it really doesn't matter much whether you use DAD, GDG, EBE, etc.   

Do you understand the idea of 1-5-1 tuning?

When you say "top string", what exactly do you mean?  In guitar parlance, the top string is actually the first string (the narrowest one).   Top and Bottom, in this context, refer to the pitch of the string, not the physical location on the guitar.

nick

Permalink Reply by Wiley Rutledge on September 30, 2012 at 7:44am

If you're playing with dulcimers you're in good shape in DAD. DAD and DAA are standard tunings. Try your .042 an octave lower for GDG and it it's too loose, rattles, or you don't like the sound try a heavier string.

Permalink Reply by SD Helfrich on September 30, 2012 at 12:28pm

Wow! Thanks for the replies. 

Apparently I was over-tightening it (good to know). The low G was almost impossible to play because it just flopped around against the guitar body half the time instead of making any kind of discernible note, so I figured I was in the wrong octave. 

My experience with guitars is that a few months ago I found plans for CBGs and thought "Wow! What a great idea! I wonder if I can make something like that?" Mostly I'm trying to tune this thing to my non-ability in the hopes that I might eventually figure out how to play more than the first 5 notes to "Bad to the Bone" followed by a wicked cool slide to the higher octave at the 12th fret mark... 

I'll be looking up 1-5-1 tuning as soon as I post here, and apparently I meant the bottom string, lol... 

-SD-

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on October 9, 2012 at 8:06am

SD,

 

In the most general sense, to string a 3string CBG to achieve a DAD tuning, use the 6-5-4 strings (the three thickest) of a standard string set.  To achieve a GDG tuning use the 5-4-3 strings.  This will hold true for most scale lengths and all but the heaviest sets of acoustic strings. (The reason for using heavier strings on acoustic instruments is to force higher string tensions that then forces a more dynamic vibration of the guitar top, thus making more volume.  The pursuit of volume on CBGs can quickly become counter produce.   Many CBs  (especially paper cover wood boxes) do not have tops strong enough to hand the tension produced by tuning up heavy string sets.

 

Besides tightening to tight, breaking strings can be caused in defects in bridge, nut and machine head. 

 

hope this helps,

 

Wichita Sam

Permalink Reply by SD Helfrich on October 9, 2012 at 9:38am

Sam,

As you no doubt remember from our other conversation, my CBG is an acoustic without a pickup of any kind. It's a through-body with an oak neck. It's pretty strong, and I think it will handle just about whatever strings I want put on it. I'm not concerned with the volume. The volume is just fine. It's a 3-string fretless that sounds like crap if you try to play it normally, but when you use a slide it's probably louder than any commercial acoustic guitar. I know you're stuck on this volume conversation that keeps getting censored in the other forum, but right now the only problem with the strings is that the .042 string just feels sloppy when it's tuned correctly.

I had been over tightening it and trying to get to the higher octave, which was throwing my tuning completely out of whack. Someone suggested that was the problem, but now I think it was only part of the problem... 

Originally, I was using larger bolts to keep the strings off the neck and body. When I swapped out the strings, I also swapped out the bolts to a smaller size because the strings sat too far off the neck. It appears that the .042 string (the one that keeps snapping) is too wide to seat properly into the groove between the threads on the smaller bolts. The other 2 strings seem to be seated properly though, which may explain why only the .042 feels sloppy when I try to play... 

I have more of the bolts I'm currently using, so I'll widen the grooves between the threads where all the strings sit, hit them with a wire brush, and install them in place of the ones I have on there now. That may take care of the problem. Then if I decide to try DAD tuning later on I shouldn't have this issue again.  

I would not have even looked at that if not for your suggestion that there might be a defect somewhere, so thank you for mentioning it.

-SD-

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on October 9, 2012 at 1:45pm

SD,

My "problem" is that I often over narrate an answer.  I understood you concern about volume and offered what I knew.  One of the "tricks" I've used when struggling with string gauges and tunings is to buy individual strings.  most guitar stores have then behind the counter if you ask.  at $2-5 each it is a cheap way to adjust up or down string size without commiting to a whole set.  If you need something, just ask, I could probably scrounge up singles of most sizes for you to try.

 

Bolts can be useful for nuts, but they vary from bolt to bolt re: finish.  You have one a good idea to dress the grooves when you install them...

 

Good luck,

the best,

 

Wichita Sam

Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on October 9, 2012 at 8:16am

On my first few attempts at using some scrap aluminum for a bridge, I didn't completely get all the burrs off the edges of the slots, and I think they may have actually cut through the string.

I also had a few problems with not having the string line up with the slot in the nut properly when coming off the tuning pegs. Once I kept that in mind, I had no string breakage.

As already mentioned, I use also 3-4-5 strings in an open G tuning.

Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on October 9, 2012 at 9:53am

All these guys are saying "use strings x,y &z.. for pitches 1,2 & 3..."
But you don't tell us your scale length...!
What pitch you can get from a given string depends on the length.

I like the lowest three strings from a six string set for GDG and my scale length is 600mm (23 5/8 approx)

Any consecutive three stings from a set of guitar strings all do a i v i tuning, but what pitch you can get to depends on the length.. Any string has a range or pitches it can be tuned to for a given length, one side of this range it will be too slack to sustain and get a decent tone and on the other extreme it will break. Given that you are only breaking one string you re close, but aiming a little too high (in pitch) your obvious options are;
1 back off on your target key by a semitone or two
2 get a lighter set of strings
3 use the next sequence of consecutive strings from the set (eg strings 6,5,4 rather than 5,4,3 etc)
Good luck :)

Permalink Reply by SD Helfrich on October 9, 2012 at 7:12pm

The scale length is 25".

-SD-