Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 26, 2010 at 6:31am

Dave,

Well, to start with, I don't like your assumption that the neck "is glued to the underside of the lid." If this is done for the full length of the lid without any relief allowing the top to freely vibrate, you are probably loosing acoustic quality and volume.... if you never play this CBG acoustically, it may still matter as relating to tonal qualities that the piezo picks up....

But, with your assumptions, I would suggest that the pickup be placed as close to the bridge, affixed to the "top" as you can make it... A word of caution, just gluing a piezo to the lid can produce a "feedback" monster that can be a challenge to manage when amped. Many good builders recommend "sandwiching" the piezo between thin layers of wood, or softer cushioning material like a mouse pad, or applying a thick layer of hot glue or silicone to the back of the piezo. This practice protects the integrety of the pickup while reducing the feedback potential....

Within your scenerio, I would probably make a "pocket" for the piezo in the neck, under the bridge position, then CA glue the piezo to the underside of the top and then fill the pocket with silicone caulk.

Let us know how you come out with your project.....

the best,

Wichita Sam

Permalink Reply by Dave Breault on January 26, 2010 at 6:56am

Thanks for the input Sam, this is my second build and I did glue the neck to the lid on this one. I have played it acustically and it has lots of volume without any sound hole as of yet. I think I'll go with your suggestion of the pocket in the neck backed filled with silicone, those solder connections on the piezo look flimsy at best and I can see where the silicone would protect that integrity.

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 26, 2010 at 7:05am

Dave,

I've known several builders who did not relief the neck to free the top and they were satisfied with the tone/volume... I've tried it both ways and like freeing the top.... it's really up to you to decide....

Again, come back to us with your finished build, so that we can cheer you...

the best,

Wichita Sam

Dave Breault said:

Thanks for the input Sam, this is my second build and I did glue the neck to the lid on this one. I have played it acustically and it has lots of volume without any sound hole as of yet. I think I'll go with your suggestion of the pocket in the neck backed filled with silicone, those solder connections on the piezo look flimsy at best and I can see where the silicone would protect that integrity.

Permalink Reply by Dave Breault on January 26, 2010 at 7:08am

I will

Permalink Reply by Dave Breault on January 27, 2010 at 2:07am

Ok, so I took Wichita Sam's advice and here is what it looks like before I bedded it in silicone.

I must say I'm not happy with the amount of amplfied volume I'm getting, either the hole for the piezo isn't deep enough or the jerry rigged amplifier hasn't got enough power to push out the sound. I think the placement and concept are very good and I'm going to try it on a more powerful amp. In hind sigth the next CBG will have some relief between the top and the neck as Sam suggested and the piezo will be place on the sound board. Hey, it's all a learning curve ain't it?

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 27, 2010 at 2:29am

Dave, I meant a pocket between the neck and the top so that the piezo could be glued directly to the top with the pocket fill with silicone. The further away from the top the piezo is, the more volume you will lose. On my high end CBGs that ask for a "bridge pickup", I actually embed the piezo between the bridged and the top with the piezo glued to the bridge. the best, Wichita Sam
Dave Breault said:

Ok, so I took Wichita Sam's advice and here is what it looks like before I bedded it in silicone.

I must say I'm not happy with the amount of amplfied volume I'm getting, either the hole for the piezo isn't deep enough or the jerry rigged amplifier hasn't got enough power to push out the sound. I think the placement and concept are very good and I'm going to try it on a more powerful amp.

In hind sigth the next CBG will have some relief between the top and the neck as Sam suggested and the piezo will be place on the sound board. Hey, it's all a learning curve ain't it?

Permalink Reply by Dave Breault on January 27, 2010 at 2:42am

OK, so if I dig this one out and some how slide it between the sound board and neck I should get better results? It will be a trick but I have the tools and the technology, I can make it better, faster, stronger.

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 27, 2010 at 3:53am

Dave,

Yes, since the piezo work by picking up the vibrations and since the top is the part of your CBG that vibrates the most in response to the strings (except maybe for the bridge), then direct contact with the top should yield the strongest volume response.

We wanna see and hear the result....

the best,

Wichita Sam

Dave Breault said:

OK, so if I dig this one out and some how slide it between the sound board and neck I should get better results? It will be a trick but I have the tools and the technology, I can make it better, faster, stronger.

Permalink Reply by Dave Breault on January 27, 2010 at 3:58am

Oh, I know what I could do, what if after I get the piezo out of its pocket, couldn't I just continue drilling through the neck and stop when I reach the sound board, that'll be right below the bridge. Glue the element in there and then back fill the cavity with silicone, or would the silicone be necessary?

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 27, 2010 at 4:32am

Dave,

That's a good plan... The idea of the silicone (or other cushioning material) encapsuling the back of the piezo is that this cuts down on feedback which is a problem with the back (ceramic) side of the piezo is left exposed....

the best,

Sam

Dave Breault said:

Oh, I know what I could do, what if after I get the piezo out of its pocket, couldn't I just continue drilling through the neck and stop when I reach the sound board, that'll be right below the bridge. Glue the element in there and then back fill the cavity with silicone, or would the silicone be necessary?

Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on January 27, 2010 at 11:27am

Sam, which side up should the peizo be, ie smooth side towards the strings or ceramic side, or dose it matter?

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on January 27, 2010 at 11:35am

The smooth side facing the strings.... under the top than means directly against the underside of the top... if you put a piezo inside the bridge, the smooth side is direct against the bridge plate with the ceramic side in the void or outwards against the box opening.... then the ceramic side is encased in "cushioning" material....

hope this helps,
the best,

Wichita Sam

MichaelS said:

Sam, which side up should the peizo be, ie smooth side towards the strings or ceramic side, or dose it matter?

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