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Ey up!

Hopefully by now you are all aware that something is well and truly 'going on' with our UK CBG scene.

The first festival was a huge sucess, with around 25 folk attending the day sessions, and 60 for the evening gig.

This almost doubled to 50 and 100 respectivly for this years fest - and from what I gather, a lot more than attend many of the US events. And they invented it! ;o)

Clearly our scene is exploding... and I reckon it will continue to do so.

A lot of this is down to you, the participants, the anonymous benefactors, and the hardwork that Chickenbone John and a few others put in throughout the year doing all the planning and organising.

As it stands at the minute, John shells out his own cash, then worries if he'll get it back on the night! He spends hours planning, meeting, travelling, discussing - all at his own expense.

The performers play on the assumtion they will not be getting paid. They pay their own travel and accomodation costs. As it turned out this year, the anonymous donation and the good turn out, coupled with the deal done with the venue, meant they did get a little financial help, but they were there out of their own good will and dedication to the scene.

So, heres my point (FINALLY!!)

Wouldnt it be great if we had a little money in the kitty to help with all these little costs? Maybe to lay on food at the next fest? Help John with some of the planning costs? Or to actually pay the preformers something like a proper wage? Maybe cover venue costs so we can avoid the dreaded door split? Or, to put it another way;

To support the scene we all take so much from, and to ensure its continued success.

Lets just imagine for a moment that John cant afford the time off to organise next years fest, or that Hollowbelly cant afford to come and give a workshop and gig... pretty dreary picture huh? You would be left with me, in a dingy pub, talking nonsense for 15 hours. Not worth 25p...

I know what youre thinking. Sounds like a begging letter, but trust me, its not - I have a plan!

And better than that, everyone gets a little something back too :o)

The plan is to set up a UK CBG Registry (for want of a better name - it would be cool to include all homemade instruments).

And this is how it would work;

* There would be a nominal fee to join - say £5 per year. This would give us a few hundred quid to do something with next year.

* There would be NO obligation to join, and not joining would have NO effect on you attending the festival, etc etc - the idea of this is to support our democracy and help it grow, not to divide folk.

* For your £5, you would get a membership number, maybe a downloadable logo with said number (so if you are building / selling / preforming etc you can show you are affiliated, so to speak - handy if you Ebay etc) and your name on 'The List'

* 'The List' will therefore be a Uk directory of of builders and players and interested folk. If someone was activly looking for an artist, or a builder, or even just folk to interview for a documentary, what better resource?

* The registry would also have the benefit of drawing in folk who are on the fringes of what we do. Plenty of folk build and sell on Ebay, but dont come here or to the shows. Maybe seeing everyone else affiliated would motivate them to get a bit more involved. Same goes for players - lets get everyone together and share our tips, help each other, and educate the rest of the musical world together!

* As an additional benefit, once we have a proper group set up in this way, and with a little extra paperwork, we can apply for outside funding. Want to see Seasick Steve play the next UK festival? This could pay for it. Seriously.

Incidentally, I did also think about a sticker for your guitar case, but this then becomes a 'money in, money out' affair and doesnt actually raise anything for the kitty. Maybe a bit of merchandising could be done as a seperate venture?

I am volunteering to help set all this up, and it would be done properly with an elected board, proper accounts etc, so its all above board and,most importantly, for the good of the group.

So - thoughts please!

Im asking for honest open opinions here folk, so dont hold back! DO, however, try to read the whole thing before you start on about making it elitist etc etc - I think its pretty clear thats not the point!

Thanks again

Ben

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by smojo on November 20, 2010 at 7:39am

Paul - if you read the start of the discussion and some of the following messages, you'll see it's not in competition with CBN or Handmade Clubhouse at all. It's just a place mainly to raise funds and organise the annual fest. It's not right that an individual has to stump up the cash, do all the work to organise the event and hope with baited breath that enough people turn up to get his money back. I think anyone who went to the fests would be gutted if they came to an end. This will help ensure we have something really good to aim for each year, a 'real' physical event, a chance to get together and have a cracking time and possibly draw some more performers for the gig. If your concerns come true and it all turns to ratshit, at least we have had a shot at it. The most you can lose as an individual is £10 (£5 if you go to the fest) and as Col. says, you have the choice of joining or not. CBN and Handmade Club are still there as 'virtual' outlets for this fantastic musical adventure.

Permalink Reply by Ponkster on November 20, 2010 at 7:46am

I don't like being tarred with that broad brush Paul - mabe you should get to know the UK regulars before damming us all as money making capitalists ! Oh and how come I missed all the back slapping?

paul gilbey said:

MrRandomWritings (Brian) said:
Shame you have had such bad experiences - also shame you have missed the point!

paul gilbey said:
hi all, there is already wonderful place for cbg people to meet, exchange ideas, buy and sell and promote their personal businesses, its cbn. i have just found another called homemade music clubhouse.some of you are already members i see. both of these sites have a uk section and provide all the facilitys to ferther cbg in the uk.
in my experience all organisations with a commity/board will become self serving, plagued by nepitisom,back slaping and corruption. from allotment ass. through sports clubs, hobbyists to local, national and international government.
the only people who would benifit from a uk registry are those with a commercial interest,ie,builders who sell thier products,performers,parts suppliers, promoters ect ect.
i am all in favour of supporting people in business, though we punters should not be asked to fund the start up/advancement of these personal business ventures

hi brian, i think i see the point, the idea is comendable,i am only pointing out the nature of the beast.

Permalink Reply by paul 'pigfingered shark' gilbey on November 20, 2010 at 10:04am

hi smojo, i did read the discussion started by roosterman and all the following comments. i have met john and hollowbelly and thought thay were both friendly helpful down to earth. the work john does for cbg is fantastic.i have spoken to john 3 times, yet i doubt he remembers another face in the crowd telling him how great he is, i was the first person to donate to hollowbellys petrol fund in brum, though i did take a cd from him. anyway back th the point, i think the fest and registry sound like a perfectly good sales platform and should be able to raise revenue from advertising and sponsers and merchandise. if john or any number of people were to start such a business i would offer any help and support that i could. i didnt mean to tar anyone with any brush. ours is not to be backslaped comrade ponkster, but to be greatful for the party. col noted

Ponkster said:

I don't like being tarred with that broad brush Paul - mabe you should get to know the UK regulars before damming us all as money making capitalists ! Oh and how come I missed all the back slapping?

paul gilbey said:

MrRandomWritings (Brian) said:
Shame you have had such bad experiences - also shame you have missed the point!

paul gilbey said:
hi all, there is already wonderful place for cbg people to meet, exchange ideas, buy and sell and promote their personal businesses, its cbn. i have just found another called homemade music clubhouse.some of you are already members i see. both of these sites have a uk section and provide all the facilitys to ferther cbg in the uk.
in my experience all organisations with a commity/board will become self serving, plagued by nepitisom,back slaping and corruption. from allotment ass. through sports clubs, hobbyists to local, national and international government.
the only people who would benifit from a uk registry are those with a commercial interest,ie,builders who sell thier products,performers,parts suppliers, promoters ect ect.
i am all in favour of supporting people in business, though we punters should not be asked to fund the start up/advancement of these personal business ventures

hi brian, i think i see the point, the idea is comendable,i am only pointing out the nature of the beast.

Permalink Reply by Mark on November 20, 2010 at 11:20am

I don't recall this ever being about a "sales platform" nor about the promotion of individuals. Neither is it a "register" (that was just an early suggestion for a name, which was superceded by calling it a collective). As Smojo says, this is mainly about having an organisation to stage the annual fest and similar activities so those things aren't the problem or property of one person. If people who have a commercial element to their activity make some sales through being at the events then I don't see any objection - but that's coincidental and not part of the objectives spelled out in the constitution that was posted.

paul gilbey said:

... i think the fest and registry sound like a perfectly good sales platform and should be able to raise revenue from advertising and sponsers and merchandise. if john or any number of people were to start such a business i would offer any help and support that i could. i didnt mean to tar anyone with any brush. ours is not to be backslaped comrade ponkster, but to be greatful for the party. col noted

Permalink Reply by ChickenboneJohn on November 20, 2010 at 9:52pm

Just to pitch in here, seeing as it's me, Roosterman & Smojo who got this thing rolling. Lets get a couple of things straight here. I make and sell instruments, not just Cigar Box Guitars..and it's a business as well as a for hobby me...I make money at it, but setting up the Home Made Music Collective is not a commercial venture...check the constitution thats been posted and you'll see what it's about.

I've organised and bankrolled the Cigar Box Guitar Festival so far. If I wanted to try and make some serious money out of it, I'd set up a promotion company and do it that way...but I can tell you, I wouldn't be a rich man on the back of the UK CBG festival.

The idea of setting up a Home Grown Music Collective is to create a vehicle that can represent our hobby out there in the wide world, particularly when it comes to trying to have bit of clout with other events and promoters and grant-giving bodies. Unfortunately, this is the real world, and the only way to do this is to have a formally constituted body...and yes, it has to have a proper membership and committee, AGM, and all that sort of boring stuff. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but I' m sure people would be very uncomfortable if I'd said I was setting it up as a limited company solely for my own benefit.

I've served on several committees over the past 20 years, chaired and participated in hundreds of meetings of commercial and community organisations (however I don't have any experience at international government level), and don't agree that ALL organisations become "self serving, plagued by nepotism, back slapping and corruption". I understand the fear of this, but real-world experience tells me it ain't necessarily so...and by real world, I mean actually getting stuck in, doing some work and achieving things, not standing on the sidelines. Sorry if this ruffles any feathers...but when you've spent as much unpaid time as I have, going to meetings,writing-up reports and minutes, pleading, persuading and begging money from people, spending time and hands-on effort serving people in my community, and had the priviledge of taking all sorts of grief along the way, folk might have some inkling as to what it's all about. Rant over.

Permalink Reply by JUJU on November 20, 2010 at 11:01pm

Here Here John all of us that know you really appricate all the hard work and effort you have put into the Two previous CBG Fests Without you they never would have taken place at all

everyones entitled to there opinion as it's a free Country (or so i'm led to beleive) - but please see/Read all the facts before pointing the finger at something you know nothing about

Chickenbone John is one of the nicest guys i have ever met and hes Genuine too - i know he had lots of sleeples night organizing the two fests aswell as dealing with issues at home and fronting the Money to make it all happen if thats not commitment i dont know what is !
ChickenboneJohn said:

Just to pitch in here, seeing as it's me, Roosterman & Smojo who got this thing rolling. Lets get a couple of things straight here. I make and sell instruments, not just Cigar Box Guitars..and it's a business as well as a for hobby me...I make money at it, but setting up the Home Made Music Collective is not a commercial venture...check the constitution thats been posted and you'll see what it's about.

I've organised and bankrolled the Cigar Box Guitar Festival so far. If I wanted to try and make some serious money out of it, I'd set up a promotion company and do it that way...but I can tell you, I wouldn't be a rich man on the back of the UK CBG festival.

The idea of setting up a Home Grown Music Collective is to create a vehicle that can represent our hobby out there in the wide world, particularly when it comes to trying to have bit of clout with other events and promoters and grant-giving bodies. Unfortunately, this is the real world, and the only way to do this is to have a formally constituted body...and yes, it has to have a proper membership and committee, AGM, and all that sort of boring stuff. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but I' m sure people would be very uncomfortable if I'd said I was setting it up as a limited company solely for my own benefit.

I've served on several committees over the past 20 years, chaired and participated in hundreds of meetings of commercial and community organisations (however I don't have any experience at international government level), and don't agree that ALL organisations become "self serving, plagued by nepotism, back slapping and corruption". I understand the fear of this, but real-world experience tells me it ain't necessarily so...and by real world, I mean actually getting stuck in, doing some work and achieving things, not standing on the sidelines. Sorry if this ruffles any feathers...but when you've spent as much unpaid time as I have, going to meetings,writing-up reports and minutes, pleading, persuading and begging money from people, spending time and hands-on effort serving people in my community, and had the priviledge of taking all sorts of grief along the way, folk might have some inkling as to what it's all about. Rant over.

Permalink Reply by Little Soul Eric on November 21, 2010 at 12:49am

JUJU i couldnt have put it any better !!

JUJU AKA SOUNDSSOGOOD said:

Here Here John all of us that know you really appricate all the hard work and effort you have put into the Two previous CBG Fests Without you they never would have taken place at all

everyones entitled to there opinion as it's a free Country (or so i'm led to beleive) - but please see/Read all the facts before pointing the finger at something you know nothing about

Chickenbone John is one of the nicest guys i have ever met and hes Genuine too - i know he had lots of sleeples night organizing the two fests aswell as dealing with issues at home and fronting the Money to make it all happen if thats not commitment i dont know what is !
ChickenboneJohn said:
Just to pitch in here, seeing as it's me, Roosterman & Smojo who got this thing rolling. Lets get a couple of things straight here. I make and sell instruments, not just Cigar Box Guitars..and it's a business as well as a for hobby me...I make money at it, but setting up the Home Made Music Collective is not a commercial venture...check the constitution thats been posted and you'll see what it's about.

I've organised and bankrolled the Cigar Box Guitar Festival so far. If I wanted to try and make some serious money out of it, I'd set up a promotion company and do it that way...but I can tell you, I wouldn't be a rich man on the back of the UK CBG festival.

The idea of setting up a Home Grown Music Collective is to create a vehicle that can represent our hobby out there in the wide world, particularly when it comes to trying to have bit of clout with other events and promoters and grant-giving bodies. Unfortunately, this is the real world, and the only way to do this is to have a formally constituted body...and yes, it has to have a proper membership and committee, AGM, and all that sort of boring stuff. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but I' m sure people would be very uncomfortable if I'd said I was setting it up as a limited company solely for my own benefit.

I've served on several committees over the past 20 years, chaired and participated in hundreds of meetings of commercial and community organisations (however I don't have any experience at international government level), and don't agree that ALL organisations become "self serving, plagued by nepotism, back slapping and corruption". I understand the fear of this, but real-world experience tells me it ain't necessarily so...and by real world, I mean actually getting stuck in, doing some work and achieving things, not standing on the sidelines. Sorry if this ruffles any feathers...but when you've spent as much unpaid time as I have, going to meetings,writing-up reports and minutes, pleading, persuading and begging money from people, spending time and hands-on effort serving people in my community, and had the priviledge of taking all sorts of grief along the way, folk might have some inkling as to what it's all about. Rant over.

Permalink Reply by Ryan Gallagher on November 21, 2010 at 2:24am

I AM a money grubbing capitalist but I am willing to give money to this and get nothing back for at all. I don't make instruments, I don't sell songs or CDs and I am nothing more than a hobbyist. So I get no sales, no part of a commitee, no decision making power and no platform for anything. Not even a slap on the back.

I am interested in supporting it because it has the potential to do some good and it couldn't be in better hands. Can it fail? Yes of course it can but if you decide what not to do simply because it COULD fail then you should sit at home watching TV. IF there is a decent chance it will succeed it is worth promoting and helping out. If people put in what they can afford to lose then the risk is mitigated and the potential can still be fulfilled.

If you disagree I fully understand. Don't join.

Permalink Reply by dogfinger steve on November 21, 2010 at 2:32am

well said indeed juju. if things are to go forward which they must in my opinion a commitee is a necesity, i'v sat on festival committees for the last 5 years (still in therapy)and as john states its not easy, john ben and smojo in my opinion are the folks to steer this thing onward. :0)

Permalink Reply by Ian Drury on November 21, 2010 at 3:12am

Hi Ben & UK CBGers,
Great idea and a £10 sub is affordable.

What aboout a local/ regional/ city & town contact list to find out if there's any other CBgers near to yoursellf ?

I've done bit of searching and found one member not very far away so we can make contact, share ideas etc.

And a weekend festival / workshop type event would be great as i've been to similar happenings related to another of my hobbies ( photography ) and it was well worth being there to learn from others , make new friends, etc.

Keep me posted on developmment please.

Thanks,

ian drury, rural west Norfolk.

Permalink Reply by smojo on November 21, 2010 at 3:21am

OK so we've all had a good rant now shall we draw the line here. We don't want this place to go into decline.

Ian - yes I like the idea of a regional list of members. I posted something a while back asking people to put themselves on the map here for the very same reason. I'd love to get together with a few folk to have our own mini get-togethers.

Permalink Reply by Ian Drury on November 21, 2010 at 9:05am

hi, where can i access the list so far to find any more CBgers nearby ?
thanks,
ian.

smojo said:

OK so we've all had a good rant now shall we draw the line here. We don't want this place to go into decline.

Ian - yes I like the idea of a regional list of members. I posted something a while back asking people to put themselves on the map here for the very same reason. I'd love to get together with a few folk to have our own mini get-togethers.