Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Ford on November 1, 2011 at 6:31pm

Ok, here it is.

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on November 1, 2011 at 10:57pm

Maybe this video will help,

 http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/a-cigar-box-guitar-builders

Try tuning up too.

As long as you use the same 151 tones from the major scale, the fingerings will be all the same:

GDg / G#D#g# / AEa / etc.

Thiis chart might help too:

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/photo/13-keys?context=user

Please feel free to write if I can be of any further assistance. Enjoy your practice, Keni Lee

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Permalink Reply by YeahDoIt on November 1, 2011 at 11:50pm

I measure approximate nut to bridge 24.75 (Fame acoustic guitar), 25.5 (Lyon acoustic guitar), and 25.5 inches (Samick Telecaster). I prefer the sound of acoustic guitar strings on my cigar box guitar rather than electric guitar strings. My unwound strings are stainless steel fishing wire, but use fishing wire on my other guitars also and I think it works OK.

I remember being disappointed with the sound when I first put strings on my cigar box guitar. I swapped strings for days, finally found a tone that I liked. It was frustrating but after experimenting for a few days I found a sound that I enjoy.

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Permalink Reply by David Ford on November 2, 2011 at 12:27am

problem is, I eventually need to match it to some other instruments where I play primarily key of G, sometimes key of C.  I'll check out your link.  Thanks Keni.

Keni Lee Burgess said:

Maybe this video will help,

 http://www.cigarboxnation.com/video/a-cigar-box-guitar-builders

Try tuning up too.

As long as you use the same 151 tones from the major scale, the fingerings will be all the same:

GDg / G#D#g# / AEa / etc.

Thiis chart might help too:

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/photo/13-keys?context=user

Please feel free to write if I can be of any further assistance. Enjoy your practice, Keni Lee

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Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on November 2, 2011 at 1:52am

If you use this gizmo:  http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.htm and enter your scale of 25.5 and G', it says you need a 31.  So your string is the recommended size for a G'.

 

G'   31

D   21

G   15

d    8

 

In general, those low strings don't ring out much on a CBG, what with such a small soundbox.  Are you happy with the sound when amplified?  Couldn't tell if there is a pickup on there.

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Permalink Reply by David Ford on November 2, 2011 at 3:36am

I used the clip-on pickup for my fiddle tuner and ran it into an amp.  It was ok but didn't spend a lot of time on that as it was late.  

Right now, acoustically, it's got what I refer to as a rattley sound, though it's not an actual rattle or buzz that I can tell, unless it is the bridge bolt doing a high frequency dance on the fiberboard top.  

Maybe it's got a clipped harmonic or something.  And I just made that term up, but it could be right.  I'd have to listen more carefully through the amp today.

 

Thanks for the string guide.

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Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on November 2, 2011 at 5:19am

I had similar problems with a dead sound on one of my guitars.  I monkeyed around with how the bridge is placed on the box and that had a dramatic effect.  When I used a simple oak block, it was dead.  When I used an eye bolt direct on the box it was better.  When I placed a shim or wood under the eye bolt it brightened right up.  Experiment that way and see if it improves.

 

Also you can try fastening the bridge securely to the box by glue or lightweight fasteners.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on November 2, 2011 at 6:27am

Dianne gives an excellent tip here, but I would add that you have a rather long distance from tail to bridge and are probably suffering from the effect of too little break over the bridge as well as the wrong string guage for the scale length.

Put another way, the angle over the bridge is very shallow and it doesnt apply enough string tension to the bridge and top.

You might also find the sound changes a bit with the other strings installed too!

I would suggest this approach based on your description and picture.

First, cut the tail piece off shorter and re-do the attachment points closer to the tail end of the box.

Second, slide that bridge back from the middle of the box to around the 1/4 to 1/3 (of the top length) from the tail end.

Now your scale length is even longer, but its all an experiment and now you might even retry that .034 before messing with other string guages. Either way, use Dianes advise on calculating string guages, its a great starting point and can eliminate a lot of frustration getting "dialed in".

As far as string action (height) goes, its a matter of personal preference, but my advise would be to forget about trying to set up for finger style and slide playing if you are just learning. Choose one or the other until you are pretty comfortable. It rarely ever works out very well. (I know I will get some disagreement on this, JMO.)

Either way start high and adjust down in small increments when you feel the need.

For slide, I would try it about 1/4" across the board. And note that the previous problem of string tension becomes an issue once again. You will want to shoot for a little tighter tension in my experience.

For finger style you will want to start a little lower and generally with about one step lighter guage strings at minimum as compared to slide set up, but be aware that as you get close to the "ideal" height it gets ever more critical that your fingerboard is true, and fretwork (if you have it) accuracy becomes very important.

I like a "fast" fretboard generally for most fretted playing. That is to say low or close action. with very well prepped fret boards you can get pretty low.

A good starting point might be about 1/8" at the nut end and 3/16" somewhere above the 12th fret area. Thats low enough to begin to reveal accuracy issues, but still too high for me.......

Hope that helps, and have fun!

Mark

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on November 2, 2011 at 6:46am

Here is my 2 cents. To add to what ED said above the string tension on the box needs to be good for a nice sound, raising the bridge will put more tension on the lid and still have the same tension up the neck. 

 

Now I see that this has already been said but I will add it just so you know its real, lol.  Read Marks post twice then proceed.

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on November 2, 2011 at 9:54am

Not exactly sure what your current situation is now, but I prefer a shorter 22" scale for 3 string CBGs. It makes the finger stretches easier from fret to fret. Using medium gauge guitar strings A,D, and g, I can tune to GDg and the tension is effective. If you want the key of C, using the lower E, A, and D strings you should be able to tune down as low as CGC and still have an effective string tension. I hope this information helps. Enjoy, Keni Lee

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Permalink Reply by David Ford on November 2, 2011 at 10:29am

thanks everyone.  lots of info.

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Permalink Reply by David Ford on November 2, 2011 at 11:10am

I've got more boxes on the way.  I'll probably finish this one off at 25.5" length, then do the next one shorter.

 

I don't want to get midway between the two instruments and have a mishap that makes me start all over. My lapsteel is 21" and that is comfortable.

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