Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JonBouye on May 7, 2011 at 4:43pm

Hi Mike, welcome to the addiction. I'm a noob myself having just fininshed my first build last month. Let me say right off that you have found the right place and there is a wealth of knowledge to be found here. But more than that is the people you have chosen to associate with; some of the best in the world. All of them are open to our questions no matter how rudimentary they may be in the end. Part of the attraction to the CBN is getting to share the things we learn as we go and the more experienced getting to feel like the sages they are.  

To address some of your problems, I found when using the same size blank as you I had to laminate the peghead to compensate for the tuners since I did not want to tackle a scarf joint on my first project. I have also found the most necks are angled 1 - 2 degrees on the better builds and this helps with string heightt. But you are correct in looking at the nut and bridge saddle height first.

In the free plans section check out "A Guide to Advanced Cigar Box Guitar Making by Josh Gayou" He knows his stuff and even though this is written for 6 string solid body builds specifically...there is a ton of imformation that is applicable for all builds. Hope this helps and please don't be a stranger. Lots of luck.

Permalink Reply by Mike Whisenhunt on May 8, 2011 at 2:10am

Thanks for the reply, Matt. When you mention laminating the peghead I assume you mean on the backside of it. I was also considering laminating the fretboard to raise it up from the pegs and also give less relief  under the strings. I really don't want to admit defeat and scrap the neck altogether.I will add another layer of lamination on the back of the pegs. That should let me lower my nut.

 

Mike

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on May 8, 2011 at 2:55am

Mike, dont hate the forum, this ones different. Lets just say I think were all here because were not all there.

The problems you are having are common first timer problems, dont feel alone. Both are worthy of further studies of the many builds in the pictures thruout this site. Many novel and creative solutions have been tried.

Without seeing yours, its hard to give specific advice. I am not clear on some of your description either. Is your finger board flush with the top of the box? Keep in mind, the simple builds with the fingerboard flush with the inside of the box are generally set up for slide only, with very high action. But even a "flat" build flush with the top can be challenging as far as getting good action.

The head stock design needs to allow for some break over the nut. Many of the designs here are very short, and the angle is very shallow, and these problems make it challenging as well. Some undercutting of the face side, additional material on the back, Maybe string trees, or a combination of these should get you there. Also be sure to wind the strings down the tuner pegs in such a way to get the string as low as possible.

I recently had a problem where the headstock angle was adequite, but the nut to tuner length was so short it was still very sketchy. Then I made a mistake and cut the headstock a little too thin. Winding the strings down the tuner solved the issue. I will post the pic as soon as I can find it.

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on May 8, 2011 at 2:59am

Here it is:

 

Permalink Reply by David L. on May 8, 2011 at 4:29am

You might find string trees or a string bar (like these http://www.axesrus.com/axeTrees.htm) to bring the string lower from the peg may sort the problem as then the string goes from peg - under the tree or bar - over the nut.  I have seen some people use eyelets as a cheap alternative.

Permalink Reply by Mike Whisenhunt on May 9, 2011 at 3:43am

Mark, was that all cut from one piece of stock or has the angle of the neck been glued on? If it came from one piece of material how thick was it?

 

Genius, David. Of all the extravagant solutions I came up with while attempting to go to sleep I never though of the simple solution. I have added some more beef to the back of the headstock and that is drying, it will most certainly lower my pegs, but I will keep the string tree idea in mind for next time.

Also, what is about the norm (if there is such a thing) for the string height across the frets if not using a slide? I think maybe I had WAY too much tension on my strings before. Just trying to relax them a bit, tee hee hee...

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on May 9, 2011 at 6:14am

Hey Mike,

That is a carved poplar neck I did this winter intended as a building lesson. It is described (nearly step by step) in a (long) blog in the intermediate building tips and tricks group. If you read through the build and study the pictures you will probably find some interesting ideas, and understand why I would recommend some minor changes. The addition of a hard fingerboard would be one. The neck itself came out very nice though, and has "that feel" when you pick it up and run your hand down it.

Here is a link to the article.

 

The string tree is a functional solution, but personally I prefer to design headstocks and necks that dont need them. Nothing against those who use them, just personal preference I guess.

 

Action height is a tough one to answer. For fretted playing the general answer is "as low as you can get it." But that depends on the accuracy of your neck, fret work and fret prep and finish. And once you go too low and find it buzzes and such, its a whole 'nuther hassle. Shimming or re-making nuts and bridges and/or fixing high frets is a whole art in itself.

So my recommendation is always to start a little high and lower in very small increments. As you mess with it and play with it you will get a feel for what it needs. Determining what is good for you is going to take into account both building and playing experience and personal preference. Keep in mind that things will "settle" a bit sometimes over time as well.

Hope that helps, let us know how its going and keep at it!

Mark

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on May 9, 2011 at 6:31am

Hi Mark,

 

Building with scarf necks is certainly a more elegant way of going about it, but for beginners and others that don't want the hassle, string trees work just fine.  Hasn't seemed to interfer with the success of a little company called Fender... lol.... ;-0

 

the best,

 

Wichita Sam

Mark Bliss said:

Hey Mike,

That is a carved poplar neck I did this winter intended as a building lesson. It is described (nearly step by step) in a (long) blog in the intermediate building tips and tricks group. If you read through the build and study the pictures you will probably find some interesting ideas, and understand why I would recommend some minor changes. The addition of a hard fingerboard would be one. The neck itself came out very nice though, and has "that feel" when you pick it up and run your hand down it.

Here is a link to the article.

 

The string tree is a functional solution, but personally I prefer to design headstocks and necks that dont need them. Nothing against those who use them, just personal preference I guess.

 

Action height is a tough one to answer. For fretted playing the general answer is "as low as you can get it." But that depends on the accuracy of your neck, fret work and fret prep and finish. And once you go too low and find it buzzes and such, its a whole 'nuther hassle. Shimming or re-making nuts and bridges and/or fixing high frets is a whole art in itself.

So my recommendation is always to start a little high and lower in very small increments. As you mess with it and play with it you will get a feel for what it needs. Determining what is good for you is going to take into account both building and playing experience and personal preference. Keep in mind that things will "settle" a bit sometimes over time as well.

Hope that helps, let us know how its going and keep at it!

Mark

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on May 9, 2011 at 6:48am

Yeah, I knew someone would say that. Even kind of predicted it might be you for some reason.

You know, funny thing, back 30+years ago I played (or preferred) Gibson stuff, but now both my taste in music combined with aged stiff fingers making my old 60's SG tricky to play, I kind of have been finding myself coveting a nice Tele........

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on May 9, 2011 at 7:23am

Mark,

 

As an old Telecaster fan, I just couldn't resist.  There's room in the ark for all kinds of animals....

 

the best,

 

Sam

Mark Bliss said:

Yeah, I knew someone would say that. Even kind of predicted it might be you for some reason.

You know, funny thing, back 30+years ago I played (or preferred) Gibson stuff, but now both my taste in music combined with aged stiff fingers making my old 60's SG tricky to play, I kind of have been finding myself coveting a nice Tele........

Permalink Reply by Mike Whisenhunt on May 9, 2011 at 3:24pm

I hate dragging this thread out more, but since I'm the one that opened it...

 

When it comes down to finishing the woodwork of the CBG, like the neck. Do most of you apply stain and poly, or stick to something like a linseed oil?

 

In other news: The laminating on the headstock has solved my peg issues. I was able to use a lower nut and bridge, now it seems to be a bit easier to finger. I have everything sanded nice and smooth (or as smooth as I could get it) and am looking at marking my frets and adding (forgive my lack of terminology here) dots. Any hints on that one or is it strictly a preference deal?

 

Mike

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on May 10, 2011 at 3:44am

Mike,

 

Good morning,   as far as finishing the neck is concerned, stain and poly seems to the be the "low fuss" standard.  I really like unstained wood and spray poly.  it lets the natural color come thru and with the spray you can apply several thin and consistant coats for a nice finish.  I like satin or "low gloss" instead of "high gloss"  for a more playable finished.

 

Frel lines (for fretless builds) can be marked using magic markers, paint, wood burning, etc.  Dots (position markers)  can be anything from what you use for lines, to stickers, to branding using heated bolt heads, to rifle shell casing heads, to brass pan headed screws counter sunk into the fretboard, to commercially prepared dots, to homemade dots.  My favorite is using a paper punch to cut dots from thin or medium guitar pics. 

 

Ok, that ought to give you something to work on....

 

the best,

 

Wichita Sam

 

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