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Tuning Machine Spacing...

Posted by Mister Scott on September 4, 2010 at 6:08pm in Building Secrets, Tips, Advice, Discussion
My latest build has the annoying problem of frequently falling out of tune. I did a little digging online, and according to some sources, part of the problem might be that I didn't space my tuning machines evenly/correctly/whatever. These sources stated that most headstocks have a 35mm spacing between the tuning heads. Stew Mac has a drill jig for spacing, but I'd rather just make one myself (and I'm not the only one here who thought the same thing -- http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/headstock-headaches).

However, I've yet to come across a source that will tell me if that 35mm is the space between each machine, or if it's from hole center-to-hole center. Anyone here know which it is?

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Replies

  • Don Goguen September 8, 2010 at 6:58am
    " I hope you get a good deal, just watch for slop in the head"

    The used tool market around here is flush with good deals lately. Over the last few years I've managed to upgrade the bulk of my shop tools with larger units. I suspect the high cost of wood is partly to blame for many getting out of the hobby. Also got some great deals at a couple estate sales. One guy had an incredible shop with vinyl tile floor, dust collection, air filtration and tons of great equipment. I picked up a surface planer with lots of extras for cheap.

    The drill press I picked up looks barely used. It is a Ryobi 10" bench model press. Given the amount of dust, it looked like it just sat in this guys shop. Early in my career I worked as a tech for a company that rebuilt and repaired production woodworking equipment. It is easy to tell if a piece has been beat to death. There is plenty of old junk out there but also some jems. Picked up a Rockwell shaper with cutters for 25 bucks. The best bets seem to be the newer equipment from guys that get the woodworking bug then loose interest. Many of these are hardly used machines and can be had for short money.
  • William McCauley September 7, 2010 at 9:48pm
    Don Goguen said:
    Yes, I drill a small pilot hole through and then use a stop on the drill press, setting the depth just enough to accommodate the bushing. For some of my current CBG's, I am using the tuners from CB Gitty. I believe it is a 5/16" bit for the bushing (I'm on the road this week and away from the shop). This is tight enough to require using a rubber mallet to hammer the bushings in. A good set of brad point bits that cut cleanly really helps. I then finish drilling the hole through using a bit that gives me a tight fit. I forget the exact size but I do remember it is a 64th fractional size.

    Take care of the small details and it takes care of the small (and sometimes big) problems.

    This weekend I picked up a second drill press. It is a small bench top that I got for $40 off of Craigslist. There are lots of good tool deals out there lately. I wanted a second unit because my floor model has a large milling vice setup and is not always convenient.

    william McCauley said:
    Don Goguen said:
    I suspect you are reading something I didn't in that post. From what I read in the initial first threads was that by drilling by hand, he was ending up with holes that were not "true" or square. This would cause problems with binding and such with the tuners but "spacing", I'm not buying as the reason the strings are going out of tune.

    I do however use a drill press to drill out my headstock and am careful to drill both the tuner backs and top guides (different size holes) true and center. Otherwise, previous builds have been all over as to spacing of the tuners with no problems. Lately I've taken to laying out the string path in CAD and positioning the tuners so the string is straight or has at least the minimum deflection. Then I design the headstock cut out around the tuners positions. Form follows function design.

    Do you drill the larger hole to accept the bushings? I have been drilling slightly undersize holes for the tuner and not using the bushings. I haven't done this on anything but an oak neck.
    I hope you get a good deal, just watch for slop in the head.
  • Don Goguen September 7, 2010 at 9:16pm
    Yes, I drill a small pilot hole through and then use a stop on the drill press, setting the depth just enough to accommodate the bushing. For some of my current CBG's, I am using the tuners from CB Gitty. I believe it is a 5/16" bit for the bushing (I'm on the road this week and away from the shop). This is tight enough to require using a rubber mallet to hammer the bushings in. A good set of brad point bits that cut cleanly really helps. I then finish drilling the hole through using a bit that gives me a tight fit. I forget the exact size but I do remember it is a 64th fractional size.

    Take care of the small details and it takes care of the small (and sometimes big) problems.

    This weekend I picked up a second drill press. It is a small bench top that I got for $40 off of Craigslist. There are lots of good tool deals out there lately. I wanted a second unit because my floor model has a large milling vice setup and is not always convenient.

    william McCauley said:
    Don Goguen said:
    I suspect you are reading something I didn't in that post. From what I read in the initial first threads was that by drilling by hand, he was ending up with holes that were not "true" or square. This would cause problems with binding and such with the tuners but "spacing", I'm not buying as the reason the strings are going out of tune.

    I do however use a drill press to drill out my headstock and am careful to drill both the tuner backs and top guides (different size holes) true and center. Otherwise, previous builds have been all over as to spacing of the tuners with no problems.Lately I've taken to laying out the string path in CAD and positioning the tuners so the string is straight or has at least the minimum deflection. Then I design the headstock cut out around the tuners positions. Form follows function design.

    Do you drill the larger hole to accept the bushings? I have been drilling slightly undersize holes for the tuner and not using the bushings. I haven't done this on anything but an oak neck.
  • Mister Scott September 7, 2010 at 8:21pm
    One of them makes life so much easier when you're drilling machine holes...
  • William McCauley September 7, 2010 at 8:15pm
    Scotty C. said:
    william McCauley said:
    Do you drill the larger hole to accept the bushings? I have been drilling slightly undersize holes for the tuner and not using the bushings. I haven't done this on anything but an oak neck.
    I've been using a tapered reamer to carve out the perfect size after drilling.
    thanks, never thought of a reamer.
  • James Cowhey September 7, 2010 at 2:05pm
    I use Sperzel locking tuners on my Strat and they have been great. I'm on my first build so locking tuners is out of the question for my CBG. At least for now I plan to go primitive....
    Joe Walley said:
    Just based on how they're played, I'm of the opinion that makers of these instruments should utilize locking tuners.

    This model provides a thumb screw on the back which drives a pin into the string hole which provides a positive lock on the string and eliminates slippage. Also with these there is no need for a multiple string winding around the post, so in theory you get better tuning accuracy as well.

    Schaller Mini Locking Tuner (16:1) 49grams

  • Mister Scott September 7, 2010 at 12:38pm
    william McCauley said:
    Do you drill the larger hole to accept the bushings? I have been drilling slightly undersize holes for the tuner and not using the bushings. I haven't done this on anything but an oak neck.
    I've been using a tapered reamer to carve out the perfect size after drilling.
  • William McCauley September 7, 2010 at 12:36pm
    Don Goguen said:
    I suspect you are reading something I didn't in that post. From what I read in the initial first threads was that by drilling by hand, he was ending up with holes that were not "true" or square. This would cause problems with binding and such with the tuners but "spacing", I'm not buying as the reason the strings are going out of tune.

    I do however use a drill press to drill out my headstock and am careful to drill both the tuner backs and top guides (different size holes) true and center. Otherwise, previous builds have been all over as to spacing of the tuners with no problems.

    Lately I've taken to laying out the string path in CAD and positioning the tuners so the string is straight or has at least the minimum deflection. Then I design the headstock cut out around the tuners positions. Form follows function design.

    Do you drill the larger hole to accept the bushings? I have been drilling slightly undersize holes for the tuner and not using the bushings. I haven't done this on anything but an oak neck.
  • Joe Walley September 7, 2010 at 12:36am
    Just based on how they're played, I'm of the opinion that makers of these instruments should utilize locking tuners. This model provides a thumb screw on the back which drives a pin into the string hole which provides a positive lock on the string and eliminates slippage. Also with these there is no need for a multiple string winding around the post, so in theory you get better tuning accuracy as well. Schaller Mini Locking Tuner (16:1) 49grams
  • Dan Sleep September 4, 2010 at 8:16pm
    Well, if spacing IS the issue, I just use a wooden template and I tap some starter holes with a nail and then drill them with a drill press.

This reply was deleted.