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Permalink Reply by BrianQ. on May 7, 2020 at 11:27am

Top & back bracing are dependent on thickness, if it’s thin like a traditional acoustic/hollowbody, then yes? If you’re building the box like a cigar box, then maybe not, however, some people brace the underside of the top where the bridge sits, to prevent long term warpage?

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Permalink Reply by BrianQ. on May 7, 2020 at 11:42am

Forgot to say, bracing done right can be a mean sound projector, but in some situations could dampen the volume? Taff should be along shortly, he’ll give you some good info about bracing, he’s quite good at it? :D

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Permalink Reply by Taffy Evans on May 7, 2020 at 6:26pm

Hi Jon, well I am glad that you have already researched info regarding the why’s and wherefores of bracing as it’s a big subject with as many suggestions, designs and experiments as there are builders. So, I will not have to go into details deeply here.
But, briefly [if that’s possible] braces are used for two or more main reasons, structural, sound enhancing and top movement control.
These are my thoughts and considerations when building full acoustic stringed instruments, and I will say up front, I am far from an expert on the subject. These comments apply to full acoustic instruments, but I have carried them over to the simple “box” style guitars and noticed differences in tone, volume and sustain.
As I have said before bracing a CBG would mainly be for stability, as I feel trying to place braces in strategic locations to improve sound etc, could be a hit and miss affair cos’ cigar boxes are always different sizes, depths thicknesses and materials. And the top/soundboard area is small and the air space in the box is also small, especially when using a trough neck design.
I build my own boxes for the very reason that I have a “constant” that I can try different bracing/top combinations and learn from the results. Remember you cannot make a silk purse out of a souse ear so the saying goes.
Your question through neck with braces? Yes, you can I have done it a few times. Draw up your design to make that possible.
Do you need braces? If I said yes, the next question would be, how big? And where to put them and why? It depends on the tops flexibility really.
What I look for is a responsive top. A top that reacts to the string energy [or before stringing tapping] quickly and easily. Before bracing, a top/lid of a cigar box, ideally, should have a certain amount of “give” when pushed down, the more movement the more flexible the top. This will give a certain tone and of course be weaker. Adding a brace will raise that tone and strengthen the top.
The fun, learning and frustration enters the scene when endeavouring to balance the flexibility/response against stability and durability. One can also over brace a top of course.
After all that BrianQ’s suggestion of a brace under the bridge area [depending on where the bridge falls on the top, is a good starting point. Learn from this build and carry ideas over to the next.
So endeth the short version, ha ha, Brian Q’s Fault.
Cheers Taff

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 8, 2020 at 2:43am

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 8, 2020 at 2:52am

Thanks for the input. Somehow the text I sent with this got deleted :-) anyway here are the sides of walnut, about 3 1/2 inches deep, and the top and back. Top and back are made out of maple and the dimensions you can see from the rulers, roughly 9 1/2 x 15 1/2“. All the wood is somewhere around 3 mm thick giver take a little. You can see if you look on the two shots the bracing patterns I’m imagining using. I thought I’d go with an x brace on the top And three cross braces on the back. So let me know if you have any further thoughts. If I don’t hear anything new this is probably what I’ll go with and see what happens :-) I am planning on adding a humbucker  to the whole set up when it’s done. Fun no matter which way it ends up going. The first box I’ve built myself. I wanted to see what a larger box made out a cool would do both for the look and the projection of the sound. Sure I’ll learn something from it

By the way this is not the actual neck I’ll be using. I’ll create a new one that goes all the way through the box ha ha :-)

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Permalink Reply by Keith Rearick on May 8, 2020 at 6:19am

Some of CBGittys kits are braced, but on the top only. Building the mountain tenor here. You could look on the site, and see it. The tenor has leaf sound holes. Poorness Studios built one and also added made it electric.

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 8, 2020 at 7:01am

thanks I’ll  investigate those leads:)

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Permalink Reply by Taffy Evans on May 8, 2020 at 12:19pm

Hi Jon, looking good. Yes I've used cross bracing amongst my builds. Keep in mind that soundholes and pickups in the top will affect top performance. Cross braces are usually/always keyed into the sides so as to support the top against downward pressure of the strings. I will post some photos of some of mine, if you want.
Taff

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 8, 2020 at 2:46pm

That would probably help, Taff as I’m shooting pretty much blind at this point. Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Taffy Evans on May 8, 2020 at 5:03pm

Hi Jon, here are a couple of bracing ideas, they vary with the type of top used.
When selecting a top I judge it not by its thickness but by its flexibility, which changes, in solid timber, from piece to piece and species to species.

You will notice that I also reinforce thin tops around the soundhole and pickup cutouts.

Also shown is a couple of full size builds to show braces supported at the sides/kerfing of the guitar.






Cheers Taff

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 17, 2020 at 1:44am

Attachments:

• E51BDB77-8709-48CA-AB5C-B57FDA42041E.jpeg, 106 KB
• 6E3A29AC-D8F3-41E6-A28B-15A1AAE8B169.jpeg, 1.9 MB

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 17, 2020 at 3:06am

Thanks Taff. Here's where I ended up. Your pics were a big help. Hope it sounds good! I'll know soon enough!

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