Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bob Harrison on December 12, 2010 at 4:40pm

I like the great master Shanes idea on rules, no rules. Grasshopper follow your heart.

Cheers

Bob

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Permalink Reply by Mister Scott on December 12, 2010 at 4:40pm

:-)  Thanks Bob

Bob Harrison said:

I like Shanes idea on rules, no rules. Grasshopper follow your heart.

Cheers

Bob

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Permalink Reply by Mark Myers on December 12, 2010 at 4:42pm

If you are trying to sell the guitar then premade necks usually six string make it so much more appealing to the customer.  NO RULES!!!!!  Ive done it both ways and people love all of them!

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on December 12, 2010 at 6:01pm

Practice enough and you'll be able to make a six string neck far better than any premade thing you can buy. 

 

My take on the whole thing (taken from my web site):

 

"The problem with putting a premade neck onto a guitar is that you are no longer a guitar maker.  All you’re really doing is assembling a guitar.  No offense to anyone out there who does this but that’s really what it comes down to: skilled factory work.  When it comes to the feel of the instrument, how well it plays, and how well the musician connects with it; Jesus, all of these qualities are defined by the guitar neck.  They’re not influenced by the neck.  They ARE the neck.  If you buy a neck from somebody else and stick it on your body then it’s actually that person and not you who played the major role in making that guitar a success or failure.

 

However you want to cut it, I’m more impressed by the guy who slaps a poplar stick on a box with toothpick frets than I am with your authorized Fender replacement neck.  At least every part of that guitar will be indisputably his and not the skilled work of some CNC machine."

 

That being said, if you just want to get something made that you can play then for God's sake, do it whatever way you can and screw whatever people like me or anyone else might say.

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Permalink Reply by Mister Scott on December 12, 2010 at 6:05pm

I pretty much feel the same way, Josh. It's just frustrating, though, to be a relative beginner at this, to work on a neck for 2 weeks in spare time, and then to ruin it in the span of 10 minutes.

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

Practice enough and you'll be able to make a six string neck far better than any premade thing you can buy. 

 

My take on the whole thing (taken from my web site):

 

"The problem with putting a premade neck onto a guitar is that you are no longer a guitar maker.  All you’re really doing is assembling a guitar.  No offense to anyone out there who does this but that’s really what it comes down to: skilled factory work.  When it comes to the feel of the instrument, how well it plays, and how well the musician connects with it; Jesus, all of these qualities are defined by the guitar neck.  They’re not influenced by the neck.  They ARE the neck.  If you buy a neck from somebody else and stick it on your body then it’s actually that person and not you who played the major role in making that guitar a success or failure.

 

However you want to cut it, I’m more impressed by the guy who slaps a poplar stick on a box with toothpick frets than I am with your authorized Fender replacement neck.  At least every part of that guitar will be indisputably his and not the skilled work of some CNC machine."

 

That being said, if you just want to get something made that you can play then for God's sake, do it whatever way you can and screw whatever people like me or anyone else might say.

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on December 12, 2010 at 6:21pm

Oh, dude.  You got no idea.  The one that still irks the shit out of me is the time I had a perfect neck in work.  I already had a few weeks worth of here and there work put into it.  It came down to the point where I was carving it out with a spoke shave.  Imagine my horror when I took one swipe too many and exposed the truss rod through the back end.  The whole thing was wasted and had to be thrown away (about sixty dollars worth of wood stock, not including the MOP inlay work I had done).  It's actually good that I took that one extra swipe that exposed it.  If I hadn't, I might have put that neck into a guitar and have the truss rod blow through the back end while being adjusted.

 

The best thing about that, though, is that I never made that mistake again.  Trust me on this: your screw ups are ten times more valuable to you than your successes, provided that you're prepared to view them with a constructive attitude.  When you mess something up, you probably learn ten or fifteen things about why what you did failed.  When you do something right, all you know is that what you did worked.  You don't learn very much at all.

 

If you want to make the killer stuff, you've got to slog through the mistakes first.  Look forward to them.  They turn you into a better guitar maker in the long run.

 

I pretty much feel the same way, Josh. It's just frustrating, though, to be a relative beginner at this, to work on a neck for 2 weeks in spare time, and then to ruin it in the span of 10 minutes.

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

Practice enough and you'll be able to make a six string neck far better than any premade thing you can buy. 

 

My take on the whole thing (taken from my web site):

 

"The problem with putting a premade neck onto a guitar is that you are no longer a guitar maker.  All you’re really doing is assembling a guitar.  No offense to anyone out there who does this but that’s really what it comes down to: skilled factory work.  When it comes to the feel of the instrument, how well it plays, and how well the musician connects with it; Jesus, all of these qualities are defined by the guitar neck.  They’re not influenced by the neck.  They ARE the neck.  If you buy a neck from somebody else and stick it on your body then it’s actually that person and not you who played the major role in making that guitar a success or failure.

 

However you want to cut it, I’m more impressed by the guy who slaps a poplar stick on a box with toothpick frets than I am with your authorized Fender replacement neck.  At least every part of that guitar will be indisputably his and not the skilled work of some CNC machine."

 

That being said, if you just want to get something made that you can play then for God's sake, do it whatever way you can and screw whatever people like me or anyone else might say.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on December 12, 2010 at 7:38pm

Some are players, some are builders. Some are both, some are neither.

I think the goal is to have fun, however you get there is irrellevent.

Sharing our ideas, When they work out and when they fail can be part of the fun. I like the open sharing and learning aspect of this whole thing personally.

I am hearing Scotty wants to learn to build better necks for his own satisfaction. Buying a pre-made neck makes him feel like he is missing out on part of the experience, or limiting his results. obviously he feels the same way about buying a pre-built CBG or he wouldnt be attempting to build his own in the first place.

I would like to direct Scotty to sources of information to help him achieve that. And I hope to soon provide some tips on the subject myself as soon as I get done setting some workspace back up. Its too cold (20's) to work out in my previous space and I have some serious cleaning and organizing to do.......

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on December 12, 2010 at 7:50pm

Certain things are only irrelevant to certain people.  Which I guess is a complicated way of saying that everyone has his or her own unique interests :)

Mark Bliss said:

Some are players, some are builders. Some are both, some are neither.

I think the goal is to have fun, however you get there is irrellevent.

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Permalink Reply by Mister Scott on December 12, 2010 at 7:58pm

 Mark Bliss said:

I would like to direct Scotty to sources of information to help him achieve that. And I hope to soon provide some tips on the subject myself as soon as I get done setting some workspace back up. Its too cold (20's) to work out in my previous space and I have some serious cleaning and organizing to do.......

Any and all suggestions are welcome; the neck that was ruined was my fourth full-size neck made from scratch, so I'm not completely green, but not a pro by any means. I think I may be missing a step in neck-carving involving a drawknife; I've just been going directly from neck thickness grooves to spokeshave carving...

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on December 12, 2010 at 8:40pm

Scotty,

If you havent seen it, I have put some information on the topic here and hope to be adding some more soon. I have been a little slow getting the group going, but I feel there is a good thread or two to start with!

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on December 13, 2010 at 1:19am

Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) said:

"Certain things are only irrelevant to certain people.  Which I guess is a complicated way of saying that everyone has his or her own unique interests :)"

Well, maybe that was a poor choice of words on my part. It is relevent since it is basically the question. I try my best to answer questions like this in a way that will not only answer the original poster, Scotty in this case, but be useful to others who are following along and might have similar questions. I dont have all the answers and I certainly dont know it all, but I like to think I might once in a while guide someone to the information they seek, or at least sometimes prevent them from making a basic mistake. What I really like about this "community" is the generally freindly supportive helping hand mentality. Very cool.

Some peoples favorite part of this hobby/craft might be carving the neck. I dont think that is often the case, and I suspect most would feel that a nice playable, good sounding result is  the goal. Some might prefer to build their own for the satisfaction, some might just buy one from Smokehouse or the various other offerings out there and have at it. Some might play them until they are worn out, some might hang them on the wall as art. If a bolt-on neck gets them where they want to go, I have no negative feelings about that. I think Josh also pointed out that the "ruined neck" experience can be a valuable learning experience.

I see many questions from those who may only have basic tools and ability, little experience, but yet desire to find a way to build their own playable instrument. It may be a matter of not having the means, or it may be a desire to be able to say "I did this". I dont know. But I hear them and I am hoping to soon post some tips and pics to help them. Perhaps we can continue to all learn together.

I do definitely agree with you Josh, that the neck is a critical part of the end result. But I also know there is a bunch of other seemingly minor things that add up to make the difference between a playable instrument and one that really impresses. I have seen some builds here that are true works of craftsmanship, just beautiful, but sound oh so mediocre. And I have seen some thrown together looking somewhat rough results that just kick butt when they are played.

I would have to say my curiosity lies in defining some of those minor details that make this difference, which is very hard in an environment where in general, no two are alike!

Well enough of my rambling, gotta get to work!

 

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Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on December 13, 2010 at 2:30am

Funny you shoud say that Wes, when I started here a year ago all the talk was about making your own tuners and using odd stuff for strings, cool I thought but I want to be able to play this so I 'cheated' and bought tuners and strings. No rules!  Scotty, you commented on the spoke shave, I just got one 12 necks ago, 2 actually both old from my dads shop. Took a bit of getting used to but now I like them combined with the sureform I was using before. Build it your way, in the end its still a cigar box guitar. 

wes carl said:

if yer concerened with getting pre-made anything i guess we should all start to make or own strings & tuners & well ya get the picture   who cares

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