Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Cigar Box Nation on January 27, 2010 at 9:51am

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 27, 2010 at 10:02am

Amen.

Shane Speal said:

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on January 27, 2010 at 10:08am

So where the hell are these T-Shirts buddy-O?

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on January 27, 2010 at 10:09am

And the TV Ad has Eric Clapton hawking these. Gotta love it.

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Permalink Reply by Cigar Box Nation on January 27, 2010 at 10:24am

http://www.cafepress.com/theinsurrection.14006094

Wes Yates said:

So where the hell are these T-Shirts buddy-O?

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Permalink Reply by Nathan King on January 27, 2010 at 10:26am

I hate (or at least dislike passionately) these so-called "smart phones." If I wanna take a picture, I use my camera. If I wanna listen to music, I'll use my mp3 player, or even *gasp* a CD! If I wanna check my email, I'll use a computer. If I wanna make a phone call... hey, I'll use my phone!

On the other hand, I love Stratocasters. LOVE THEM. I think they are the greatest guitar ever made. Maybe even one of the greatest inventions of all time. I own several of them, including 3 made in USA.

I also think Telecasters are bitchin'. I've got a few of them, too. Classic styling, sleek & sexy curves. This is a design that hasn't been updated or improved in over 50 years because it doesn't need to be. Maybe it cannot be.

Fender guitars: nice to look at, nice to hold, nice to hear, and damn nice to PLAY.

I await your mocking and scoffing with mild trepidation.

:-)

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Permalink Reply by Nathan King on January 27, 2010 at 10:28am

And in response to Shane's shirt... of course, it should go without saying that I LOVE cigar box guitars, too. Why would I be here otherwise? Cigar box guitars kick ass!

....as does my collection of Fenders!

Hee hee hee....

Nathan King said:

On the other hand, I love Stratocasters. LOVE THEM.

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 27, 2010 at 11:37am

First, let me say that I have the utmost respect for you as a guitar maker.

Second: Newb.

Just kidding. Look, I guess that there are going to be people that are into this kind of guitar but there's a certain point where your Kung Fu attains a form of understanding. And that understanding is that guitar corporations have all been feeding us a pack of sh*t.

Music is as close as I'll ever come to any form of spirituality, so I take this stuff pretty seriously. Fender has come to symbolize everything I find distasteful in the guitar industry. Gibson, PRS, Fender, etc, etc, etc. All of these names are interchangeable for me. They are guitars. They are not instruments. An instrument is something deeply personal and connected only to you, the musician. It needs to be alive and breathing. The wood needs to be free to sing, not covered in three mm of poly.

Buying a Fender guitar is like buying a microwave from Wallmart. Sure it's functional and sure it gets the job done, but don't try to tell me how it's the best or coolest one of its kind ever conceived. All that tells me is that you need to be deprogrammed.

A fender guitar, today, starts live as a living, breathing organism. It is then harvested and stuffed into a robot-controlled shredder by some dude who couldn't give two shits if he was pumping out guitars or coffee tables. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, the wood itself is hidden (in most cases) by a few coats of butt ass ugly paint (as if there was ever a color that was superior to wood grain) and then (in all cases) covered in so much plastic that you literally can't tell that the guitar was ever once alive. It doesn't even tap right. It's like they're ashamed of the fact that the guitar is made of wood (in those cases where they haven't just made it out of graphite or fiberglass - philistines). Further, if the target comsumer of the guitar is to be of the growing Deusch Bag demographic, the guitar will be stressed or antiqued (at the factory for Christ's sake) so that it can be labelled "Vintage". A Fender product isn't a guitar or an instrument; it's a f*cking insult.

A real instrument has had human hands all over it. In fact, as a luthier, it becomes a matter of pride that as much of the guitar as possible is made by hand (namely the hands of the luthier him or herself). It has been designed with the future owner in mind. Every cut that has been taken from it has been made with playability and comfort in mind; the electronics were precisely chosen to achieve a specific voice. A real instrument is made over the course of months, not days. While it is being made, it is the center of the guitar maker's universe.

There is no freaking comparrison between the two. I have to assume that anyone claiming differently is either a Fender marketting wonk or is some poor soul that has drunk the Fender-brand cool-aid.

Also, you know who else made the claim that something or other could not be imrpoved upon? Just about every other person or company that got his ass knocked out from those that were more hungry and innovative, that's who.

Nathan King said:

I hate (or at least dislike passionately) these so-called "smart phones." If I wanna take a picture, I use my camera. If I wanna listen to music, I'll use my mp3 player, or even *gasp* a CD! If I wanna check my email, I'll use a computer. If I wanna make a phone call... hey, I'll use my phone!

On the other hand, I love Stratocasters. LOVE THEM. I think they are the greatest guitar ever made. Maybe even one of the greatest inventions of all time. I own several of them, including 3 made in USA.

I also think Telecasters are bitchin'. I've got a few of them, too. Classic styling, sleek & sexy curves. This is a design that hasn't been updated or improved in over 50 years because it doesn't need to be. Maybe it cannot be.

Fender guitars: nice to look at, nice to hold, nice to hear, and damn nice to PLAY.

I await your mocking and scoffing with mild trepidation.

:-)

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Permalink Reply by Nathan King on January 27, 2010 at 12:43pm

I'm glad you responded! My main goal is posting was to play devil's advocate, and kinda get ya riled up. :-) Before I respond, let me say I love and respect your instrumental creations, and I would LOVE to get my hands on one. Maybe I will, one of these days. Further, I highly value and respect your friendship. This is not a personal attack on you, and hope it's not perceived as one. First, I agree that when most people who say something is as good as it can be are dead wrong. But, look at a Tele made in the 50s and compare it to one today. My point there was: I'd say the differences in the overall, basic design are quite slim. Second, just to get this outta the way: the idea of a "vintage" or "distressed" guitar finish is an absolute crock. The fact that people would pay money for one is even more insane. To me, that's the beauty of owning a guitar: putting those nicks & dings, dents & scrapes in it MYSELF. The "road worn" look is such a crock, because not only is it "fake," but if you buy one, your guitar looks exactly like every other "road worn" guitar out there. Cookie cutter, plain, boring, and what's the point? Now, I agree that a handmade instrument is leaps and bounds ahead of any guitar (Fender or otherwise) that's cut out entirely by machine, and "assembled" in some factory in Indonesia. There's a saying amongst us musical gearheads: you get what you pay for. The computer cut out, cookie cutter guitar might cost you a hundo, and it'll be a piece of crap. The hand-crafted-with-love-in-the-USA instrument might cost you more than your car (at least my car), and will play and sound like heaven. BUT -- you can make music on both. When you say "a real instrument has had human hands all over it," to me that reeks of gear snobbery. To me, a real instrument is something that makes music. Period. To say it's not "real" because it wasn't completely built by hand and you paid a couple thousand dollars for it... I just don't buy it. That takes away from the joy of music. My first guitar was a Squier Strat. It cost me maybe $150. Now, I've played other Squiers that are junk, so maybe I got lucky and picked a good one. I've brought it to gigs, and people laugh cuz they see it's a Squier. They stop laughing when they hear me play it. I've put countless hours of sweat, effort, pain and joy into that guitar in the past 11+ years I've been playing. It has become "something deeply personal and connected only to me, the musician." My point is, music comes from the musician, not the instrument (I know I'm probably preaching to the choir here at CBN). I've heard brilliant musicians make brilliant music with junky guitars, store bought or hand made. And on the flipside, I've heard hack musicians with unique, hand made instruments put out absolute drivel. Yeah, it doesn't do the instrument any justice, and the guy who made it would probably cringe. But it happens all the same. I, like you, take music seriously. I know what you mean when you say it's a spiritual thing. If it weren't for music, clearly I wouldn't be on this website, but I might not be on this earth right now at all. No joke. But all that's not the bigger issue I think you're getting at. The bigger issue stems from where you say guitar corporations are feeding us BS.
And I'd say you are correct. But I'd also argue that just about every major corporation, whether they make guitars, coffee tables, automobiles, or whatever, are feeding us (the collective us, that is) BS on a daily basis, and we gobble it up. I'm just not sure what the answer to that larger issue is. All I know is, I dig my Fender. :-)

I didn't take the picture, but this is the guitar I own. A Fender American Standard Deluxe Ash Stratocaster. And when I plug it into my Fender Blues Deluxe amp, there is NOTHING anyone can say or do that will tell me it doesn't sound great. The only thing that matters is my ears... and they are telling me the tone is SPECTACULAR. (I'm not sure if this should have been posted in the soapbox group or not... but I'm gonna step off my soapbox now, anyway)

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 27, 2010 at 1:17pm

"When you say "a real instrument has had human hands all over it," to me that reeks of gear snobbery."

Tell you what. You and I should come up with a guitar design. It needs to be designed around a specific sound or tone that you want to hear (please god don't say strat). We're not going to use ridiculous, over the top gear. No $200 Dimarzios or $150 tuners and no ultra flame first grade whatever wood. We'll make it with solid hardware and some cheap, good old poplar and maple. I'm not talking about a typical CBG either. I'm talking about a full on solid body guitar. Not the hottest, ultra, panty soaking gear on the market. Just an instrument made with love.

I'll charge you just for the parts and materials to make it.

Now, if you sign up for that and you can make it through the whole process of having a guitar made personally for you (while being involved in the process every step of the way) and you still think that what I'm saying amounts to gear snobbery, then I will bow down before you and agree that everything that I have said is just flat our wrong. In fact, if the guitar doesn't just feel better in your hands than a strat...

Well, shit. I'll go out, buy a Strat, and hang it in my shop.

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Permalink Reply by Jkevn on January 27, 2010 at 2:09pm

Josh, if I call you a gear snob, will you build me one...or at least let me hang out and help with Nathan's? I'll let you talk on my new Clapton phone....it has a six string thing built in.....

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on January 27, 2010 at 2:12pm

Where do you live?

Jkevn said:

Josh, if I call you a gear snob, will you build me one...or at least let me hang out and help with Nathan's? I'll let you talk on my new Clapton phone....it has a six string thing built in.....

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