Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on August 24, 2010 at 10:04am

Can't you just put on a new tuner? Is it not tightening because the tuner is bent and the gears no longer work?

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Permalink Reply by GI Junker on August 24, 2010 at 10:18am

it will just bend again because of how I shaped the neck

Diane in Chicago said:

Can't you just put on a new tuner? Is it not tightening because the tuner is bent and the gears no longer work?

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Permalink Reply by Doctor Steve on August 24, 2010 at 11:30am

Disclaimer: I have not tried any of this yet. So I may be completely full of crap ;). Your milage may vary.

Seriously, this is something I want to try (glued neck/headstock). Seems it is standard practice.

Here's one nice example. Here, I suspect the main force of the strings is applied to the neck board, not so much to the headstock board.  That is, the neck extends and functions as part of the headstock.

My first CBG (from Ben Kimbler has the headstock glued to the neck.

It has a notch in the neck, which reinforces the joint.

There is a discussion in here:

Jointed headstocks versus solid necks
Guitar necks are either ‘solid’ necks carved from a single block of wood, or they may be built up from several pieces of wood. It's a common misconception that earlier guitars and today’s top of the range guitars, all use solid necks and that this is somehow a superior method of construction. This is not the case, since most of the earliest guitars had headstocks made from a separate piece of wood, glued onto the neck. Although carving an entire neck from a solid blank may result in a neck that looks better, it leaves an inherent weakness in the headstock area. This is because the wood blank will be cut with the grain, so the neck itself will have the wood fibres running in parallel along its length, resulting in the strongest possible neck. However, because the headstock angles back from the neck, when the headstock is carved from the same block, the grain runs at an angle across the thickness of the headstock, so there’s a weakness at this point. With a glued headstock cut from a separate piece of parallel grain timber, the wood is once again being used in its strongest fashion. Contrary to what is often thought, a properly constructed glued joint, particularly when made with modern glues, is stronger than the wood around it and of course it makes more economical use of the raw timber. So a multi-part glued neck is in fact superior to a ‘solid’ neck in every respect, except possibly cosmetically.

I know this does not exactly apply to your original design (straight cut neck), but something to think about in future builds, e.g., to have more of a downward angle from the nut.

There are some other discussions.

This wikipedia article discusses it.  This also has full-size shape templates for various companies' headstocks.

There are some step-by-step instructions here and here.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Sleep on August 24, 2010 at 11:33am

You could just cut off the head piece on an angle, creating a scarf joint, and splice on a new head stock piece that has a matching scarf angle cut on it. A lot of work.

Can't you just pre bend the tuner so it matches the curve of the wood?

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Permalink Reply by Doctor Steve on August 24, 2010 at 11:42am

Nice summary Iggy. I had a long-winded explanation already at hand, cause I had been looking into this.

Iggy said:

You could just cut off the head piece on an angle, creating a scarf joint, and splice on a new head stock piece that has a matching scarf angle cut on it. A lot of work.

Can't you just pre bend the tuner so it matches the curve of the wood?

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Permalink Reply by Outhouse Instruments on August 24, 2010 at 1:32pm

Scarf joint. Either near the nut and replace the whole head, or just in front of the curve.
Looking at pic 132 there seems to be enuff room for this option
You can just remove all tuners, plug the holes with wooden dowel rods, drill the new holes where they need to be and put the tuners on right. Make sure you bend the bad tuner back. Easiest in my opinion.

The add on piece or plug and move will show unless you laminate a piece to cover it. IMHO the best thing would be the scarf joint method.

Or you can just straighten the bent tuner so the gear engages , and just not tighten the screw down so tight that it bends it again.

btw- you need more string around the tuner peg ... it may just be slipping.
I do a minimum of 2 wraps, usually 3 in a lock method.


Matt

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Permalink Reply by GI Junker on August 24, 2010 at 7:22pm

ty this is prob the method I would pursue...ty everybody the wealth of information is a big help.

Matt Towe said:

Scarf joint. Either near the nut and replace the whole head, or just in front of the curve.
Looking at pic 132 there seems to be enuff room for this option
You can just remove all tuners, plug the holes with wooden dowel rods, drill the new holes where they need to be and put the tuners on right. Make sure you bend the bad tuner back. Easiest in my opinion.

The add on piece or plug and move will show unless you laminate a piece to cover it. IMHO the best thing would be the scarf joint method.

Or you can just straighten the bent tuner so the gear engages , and just not tighten the screw down so tight that it bends it again.

btw- you need more string around the tuner peg ... it may just be slipping.
I do a minimum of 2 wraps, usually 3 in a lock method.


Matt

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Permalink Reply by Julian Perry on August 24, 2010 at 9:10pm

Hey I'd be tempted to just carve the area flat where the tuner sits. It will mean the tuner protrudes a coupla mill more at the front, but barely noticeable. or you could add a thin flat piece of wood to the area you've carved out to shim the tuner up slightly. May be a bit of a bodge, but I reckon it's the easiest solution and would hardly show.

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Permalink Reply by Ben on August 24, 2010 at 11:52pm

I vote for Matt's second idea. The tuners that have have 2 screws are overkill. You only need one to keep it from spinning in place (then you have extras for various applications). 2 makes it look more finished, but if you're going for functionality, you only need 1. It might be easier to try this and if it doesn't work, THEN you can start surgery.

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Permalink Reply by GI Junker on August 25, 2010 at 12:47am

yeah im thinking scarf joint is a simple solution, I don't want this project to look like doodoo when im done...

Ben said:

I vote for Matt's second idea. The tuners that have have 2 screws are overkill. You only need one to keep it from spinning in place (then you have extras for various applications). 2 makes it look more finished, but if you're going for functionality, you only need 1. It might be easier to try this and if it doesn't work, THEN you can start surgery.

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Permalink Reply by Ben on August 25, 2010 at 5:39am

I really think you're missing the obvious. A missing screw is the simplest solution. Creating a nice, clean scarf is not nearly as simple as leaving off a screw on the back of the headstock. I'm beginning to think that maybe I'm not understanding what the problem is. It seems like its that you bent the tuner by tightening down the screw over the curved part of the headstock. I would think the simple solution would be...don't bend the tuner by tightening down the screw. If you're set on getting rid of the wood then yes, the scarf joint is the NEXT simplest idea.

Kartereo said:

yeah im thinking scarf joint is a simple solution, I don't want this project to look like doodoo when im done...

Ben said:

I vote for Matt's second idea. The tuners that have have 2 screws are overkill. You only need one to keep it from spinning in place (then you have extras for various applications). 2 makes it look more finished, but if you're going for functionality, you only need 1. It might be easier to try this and if it doesn't work, THEN you can start surgery.

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Permalink Reply by GI Junker on August 25, 2010 at 7:08am

I understand what your saying. I know that with CBG's "there are no rules" This build was for me a chance to build not just a functioning CBG but A good looking one too. leaving the screw out would put my OCD into overdrive. My first build was just make it work, this one is do that plus add some eye candy.. thanks for the ideas, I wound up doing the scarf joint and reinforcing it with dowels I will post pics when im done. the lesson here is, there maybe no rules but until you know what your doing there should be plans..had I done that I would not be in my current situation. but you guys didn't disappoint and provided good advice, Ty guys.


Ben said:

I really think you're missing the obvious. A missing screw is the simplest solution. Creating a nice, clean scarf is not nearly as simple as leaving off a screw on the back of the headstock. I'm beginning to think that maybe I'm not understanding what the problem is. It seems like its that you bent the tuner by tightening down the screw over the curved part of the headstock. I would think the simple solution would be...don't bend the tuner by tightening down the screw. If you're set on getting rid of the wood then yes, the scarf joint is the NEXT simplest idea.

Kartereo said:

yeah im thinking scarf joint is a simple solution, I don't want this project to look like doodoo when im done...

Ben said:

I vote for Matt's second idea. The tuners that have have 2 screws are overkill. You only need one to keep it from spinning in place (then you have extras for various applications). 2 makes it look more finished, but if you're going for functionality, you only need 1. It might be easier to try this and if it doesn't work, THEN you can start surgery.

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