Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dan Kruitz on December 23, 2010 at 1:26pm

Hi Don - OK that makes sense.  I'm planning on using with an amp, but will keep scale length in mind for #2....

Hope to post updated photos later tonight.

Don Thompson said:

yep, understand though because your bridge will be so close to the back edge acoustically it won't excite the whole soundboard. It won't be very loud unplugged and lack bass.

Dan Kruitz said:

OK, I've dug a little more around on the board, and I think I'm going to try the following.  I've got some scrap 1x2 poplar - I've just laminated three pieces together and it will be the continuation of the neck through the body.  This poplar block will be solid along the bottom of the box the whole length.  On top of the poplar block I'm going to cut away a 1/4" or 1/2" depression under the lid so the lid can resonate.  The bridge will be mounted to this making the neck assembly (in effect ) all one piece with the box hanging on it.

 

Sound reasonable? 

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Permalink Reply by carverman on December 23, 2010 at 5:55pm

That looks like a Strat style neck with a 25.5 scale.  As you may know..the distance from the nut

to the 12th fret and the distance from the 12th to the bridge have to be basically equal for

intonation..other wise you may have trouble tuning.   If that's a regular 9.25 inch CB, you are

probably not going to have enough room on it for the bridge.  I just built a 6 stringer with

the 24.7 scale and just had enough room for the bridge..with another 3/4 inch extra you

need, the CB may need a solid wood extension added on to it.

Getting the neck angle for proper 6 string height as well as adding a piece of wood to the

neck so that you can mount the CB to it is another wood engineering issue.

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Permalink Reply by carverman on December 23, 2010 at 6:02pm

Just curious here..but if you are looking for a SB sound, why not build a " solid body" custom

design rectangular CB, then you just make a pocket to bolt the neck to, similar to the strat style.

It would save a lot of engineering to retrofit the neck to a CB...but maybe you want that

challenge?

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Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on December 24, 2010 at 1:43am

Some food for thought. One of the big differences between standard guitar and most CBG is the body length relative to the neck length. Basically the neck or scale length is staying the same, but CBGs using cigar boxes for bodies are smaller. This is where that neck / box joint connection becomes a real issue. The "neck through box" construction is basically following banjo construction and is the standard method used for resonator guitar too. This seems to address this issue effectively. (I could talk more about why specifically banjos and resonators need "neck through box" construction but that's a different topic) Connecting together with a  "bolt on" or "dove tail" joint is where body length becomes a bigger factor. Shorter scale lengths help to balance the instrument. Uke and mandolin have short scales and bodies. Certainly you can build an internal support structure inside the cigar box to strengthen the joint, but this is going to have a profound effect if you are building an acoustic instrument. If you are thinking electric, that box can be a solid block just like a Les Paul. Happy Holidays. Enjoy.      

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Permalink Reply by carverman on December 24, 2010 at 3:09am

Very good advice.   The other thing that I have done to reduce weight on my homemade Les Paul types

is to perhaps fabricate and glue on hollow "wings" onto the ( neck through) tone block.

I used a 1/2" solid maple carved top to tie everthing together and that worked for me.

I ended up with  a semi-solid (semi-acoustic?) with at least 2 lb weight reduction over the

 standard solid bodies this way with some acoustic resonance.

 The only other thing I would suggest is that the neck offset angle is determined before hand,

so that the bridge  allows a reasonable action.   In the Les Paul the neck offset angle is around

4 1/2 degrees from the horizontal. 

 I used a mockup bridge  and nut with a nylon string to sight the angle to see if it was close to

where I wanted it before hand.

 

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to  everyone at CBG Nation.

Keni Lee Burgess said:

Some food for thought. One of the big differences between standard guitar and most CBG is the body length relative to the neck length. Basically the neck or scale length is staying the same, but CBGs using cigar boxes for bodies are smaller. This is where that neck / box joint connection becomes a real issue. The "neck through box" construction is basically following banjo construction and is the standard method used for resonator guitar too. This seems to address this issue effectively. (I could talk more about why specifically banjos and resonators need "neck through box" construction but that's a different topic) Connecting together with a  "bolt on" or "dove tail" joint is where body length becomes a bigger factor. Shorter scale lengths help to balance the instrument. Uke and mandolin have short scales and bodies. Certainly you can build an internal support structure inside the cigar box to strengthen the joint, but this is going to have a profound effect if you are building an acoustic instrument. If you are thinking electric, that box can be a solid block just like a Les Paul. Happy Holidays. Enjoy.      

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Permalink Reply by Dan Kruitz on December 24, 2010 at 5:37am

Hi Carverman and KLB:
Thanks for the advice - as stated I'm a newbie and not sure what sound I'd like from it.  I'll double check the distances to verify what kind of scale the neck is - I saw a webpage at http://www.stewmac.com/scalelengthtone.html that will help me determine the scale based on the fret distances and the info replied in earlier above.  I can add that extension on no problem if I need it.  All great advice, and I know I'm not building the Colliseum and expect to make a mistake or two along the way... 

 

Thanks for your advice, patience, and the great activity on this board!  I went to vintageamps.com to find out about my amp, and not one reply in several days, whereas this site is chock full of helpful folks.

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Permalink Reply by Don Thompson on December 24, 2010 at 6:20am

That other site just doesn't have as many know it alls as here. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Dan Kruitz on December 26, 2010 at 7:34am

OK.  I've been playing around with bridge layouts, complete through neck desgins and combinations - all because I hadn't realized about scale length before I started cutting - rookie mistake.

Anyways, the background: I'm using a beat up strat clone for donor parts, and a piezo pickup.  I'm stuck on the bridge issue now and don't know if I'm got a case of paralysis through analysis or what.  If I try to re-use the original strat bridge in it's original form, it would have to hang off the end of the box with and have a wood extension added to the box, AND I'd have to make allowances for the strings to feed through the extension - kind of an ugly look in my opion.  There are some concerns that this wouldn't leave out some sound creation off the box top owing to minimal vibration.

I'd thought of reusing the bridge bracket, on the side of a box as string mount only, then using a more conventional bridge along the lines of a bolt I've seen elsewhere.  Any pluses or minuses to these scenarios that I'm not aware of?

 

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Permalink Reply by Dan Kruitz on December 26, 2010 at 11:21am

Update: I've now got a volume pot wired into the piezo and it even works!  So it's currently a stompbox on it's way to being a CBG.  I think I may go the simple route with the old bridge base and use it as a wire holder on end, then add a bolt or something else for a bridge.  woohoo.  Now to confirm I can get the neck mounted correctly....

Obviously there are different technical issues with using a guitar neck. I'm already looking forward to trying #2 with a homemade neck. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Josh Gayou (SmokehouseGuitars) on December 26, 2010 at 6:44pm

This is off topic but I really hope you get the masking tape off the box without killing the label.

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Permalink Reply by carverman on December 27, 2010 at 2:54am

Why not use a extension onto the bolt on neck and then add some wood on the extension to

raise it up to  the same level (or almost) as the CB.  This way you can use the old strat parts

 (bridge/tp) and it would "kind of"  fit in with the  strat neck.  

 After all there are no rules..just the limits of your imagination. 

 

Now this bolt idea...how is intonation affected on using a bolt?

(perhaps some others can answer this one)...I always thought that there should be a

reasonable beveled  edge on the string saddles , individual or not..

and at least  some small angle between the saddle and the tp/string anchor holes,

to allow easier tuning and keeping it in tune.

Dan Kruitz said:

Update: I've now got a volume pot wired into the piezo and it even works!  So it's currently a stompbox on it's way to being a CBG.  I think I may go the simple route with the old bridge base and use it as a wire holder on end, then add a bolt or something else for a bridge.  woohoo.  Now to confirm I can get the neck mounted correctly....

Obviously there are different technical issues with using a guitar neck. I'm already looking forward to trying #2 with a homemade neck. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Don Thompson on December 27, 2010 at 6:54am

Dan, As you may be aware I have been uneasy about this project since the beginning having to do with the neck set back. And frankly I can't get my head into turning a six string neck into a three or four. Why not use all the parts you can?  Maybe that's just me but sometimes it's just not worth the brain damage to reinvent the wheel. There are times a fresh start is the best answer. At this junction I suggest setting this project aside for the time being and proceed with #2, a homemade neck thru design with your piezo. Get a three or four string build under your belt, go down the beginners slope first then tackle the expert slope where one small mistake can slam you into a tree if you don't have the experience. I don't mean to sound discourging but I'm not sure you will be very satisified with the final product at this time.Just my take on it. Others may disagree and I'm just fine with that.

Don

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