Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by carverman on November 11, 2010 at 3:48pm

The aluminum plate is 7mm (approx. 1/4 of an inch thick). I cut the basic shape out with
a hacksaw, and then used a half round file to make the bottom contour into a 12" FB radius.
I also used a dremel disk to make a groove about the thickness of the crown of the fret
for better alignment on the fret itself. Sorry about the out of focus pic, but my camera
even in macro has a hard time to focus that close. That pic just shows the 12" radius curvature.
The first pic shows the homemade fret caul in the middle.

The frets are installed on the fret board before it is glued on as the flat bottom surface
of the FB is stable to clamp on a 10 inch hobby drill press table.

You can buy commercially made cauls from S-M, but these are rather expensive for one-offs.
The other tools, besides diagnol cutters, assortment of files is the 12" radius (8") sanding
block from S-M. I suppose I could have made one myself out of hardwood, but since I had
an order for fret wire etc; I got it from them. The trick with the block is to use light pressure
and 220 grit (or even finer), keep it straight and take light strokes and check fret height frequent. Every has their own method and there seems to be almost as many methods
as making cheese.

Attachments:

• fret tools.jpg, 44 KB
• homemade fret caul.jpg, 14 KB

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mister Scott on November 12, 2010 at 1:47pm

This is what I came up with for a sanding block:

It's a slab of granite from Home Depot, usually used as a splash guard in fancy-schmancy bathrooms. I went over to the painting department and bought some decent spray adhesive and laid over sandpaper. The slab is pretty flat, and best of all, the weight is roughly 8 pounds, which is just enough to where i can slide it back and forth without much added downward pressure.

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Permalink Reply by carverman on November 13, 2010 at 5:47am

I just got my fret kit dvd/fretwire from CB Gitty.
An excellent tutorial with pictures and recommendations for ways of construction of a mitre box etc.
I wish I had known about this DVD a couple of years ago, when I installed frets on a pre-slotted
fretboard from S-M. I managed to make it work, but with more levelling than would have been
necessary. I've ordered a fret saw with a depth adjustment from S-M.

The other technique that I've adopted is to use the full length of the fret wire to hold it
"true" in the groove, so when my (homemade caul/drill press method) presses in the fret,
it is easier to hold onto, and keep thefingers out of the way of the caul.
I don't know if this is the right way, but it works for me.

After pressing in the fret, I nip off the long end with a pair of side cutters.
It also helps to preform the fret a bit on a radius FB before putting it in the fret slot.
I use an old piece of left over FB for this with a wider groove.


BadTimmy said:

Scotty, almost all fret tangs have a cross-section approximately .023", the appropriate fret-saw should be about .025" which means the thickness of the "kerf" or the width of the cut the saw is creating. Too shallow of depth can cause the fret wire to "hump up", which is bad, too deep is usually not a problem. For a small investment, you can buy fret wire and a useful fretting DVD from G.B. Gitty for about $10.00. Even with all of my guitar building books and experience, I still obtained this from Gitty. You can never have too much info, and I found Gitty's DVD to be a useful, informative resource.

Check my page for my CBG#2 build pics, NO fret leveling, only end beveling and polishing.

Hang in there.

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Permalink Reply by carverman on November 13, 2010 at 5:51am

That is ok, if you are doing a flat FB. I'm not sure if it's the right thing for a radius fb..which one are you fretting?


Scotty C. said:

This is what I came up with for a sanding block:

It's a slab of granite from Home Depot, usually used as a splash guard in fancy-schmancy bathrooms. I went over to the painting department and bought some decent spray adhesive and laid over sandpaper.

The slab is pretty flat, and best of all, the weight is roughly 8 pounds, which is just enough to where i can slide it back and forth without much added downward pressure.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mister Scott on November 13, 2010 at 5:54am

This isn't for the fret board... It's for truing the face of the neck that the FB will be glued onto.

carverman said:

That is ok, if you are doing a flat FB. I'm not sure if it's the right thing for a radius fb..which
one are you fretting?

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Permalink Reply by carverman on November 14, 2010 at 5:26am

Good idea..carry on.



Scotty C. said:

This isn't for the fret board... It's for truing the face of the neck that the FB will be glued onto.

carverman said:

That is ok, if you are doing a flat FB. I'm not sure if it's the right thing for a radius fb..which
one are you fretting?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Don Thompson on November 14, 2010 at 6:31am

Most guitarist perfer a dip in the neck when setting the adjustable truss rod. A rise will create buzzing, the area between the first fret and 14th fret HAS to be lower, not higher. The picture clearly shows that when the string is fretted at 1 and 14 there is a space between the string and the fret at the 6th fret, clearly showing the neck is lower there.
Don



Wes Yates said:

On most guitars [read: as I understand], when you set the action of the guitar, you want to have a slight bow upwards from the 1st - 14th fret. Perhaps a few thousandths of an inch but an upward bow none the less.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/TrussRods/TrussRo... (down toward the bottom)

-WY


Scotty C. said:

Wes Yates said:

Now, when you get really good at fretting, you can try a radius and I even create a slight dip in the FB much like the natural dip in a standard acoustic/electric. That is much more tricky as you can't gauge the fret level over a longer distance, but if you use a 4"-6" strip of steel bar (sanded flat) you can usually get the frets pretty level. You can also use a short sanding block and run over the frets. This will level them out but you will have to crown them.
-WY

Thanks for the advice, Wes. I've actually been using a 12" radius block for sanding the FB the last 2 or 3 times... I haven't used it to level frets much, however, because I too find it hard to keep the block steady over long distance across the FB to make sure the sanding "shape" of the fret crowns is equal.
PS-- what natural dip are you referring to? That's a new one to me...

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Permalink Reply by carverman on November 20, 2010 at 4:59am

Scotty C;

The natural dip Don is referring to... is the slight bowing of the neck due to string tension
over time. This will form a " natural dip" between the nut and the 12th fret and
sometimes even beyond that.
The truss rod counteracts that dip by equalizing the tension of the strings on that area
of the neck. If you over tighten the torque rod, the neck will gradually flex to form a
"hump" which will< make some frets higher than others, cause a buzzing when these are fretted.
Having a FB perfectly flat is desirable, but not always achievable, so a very slight dip
(when sighted down the FB from the 1st fret is desirable..but not too much.

It's always a bit of a comprimize...height of bridge (height of string action with respect to
the frets) versus FB and fret trueness.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mark Bliss on November 21, 2010 at 5:04am

Most actions are set with a very slight dip, both to reduce buzzing from any slightly high frets, and to allow for the natural range of movement from the vibrating string. Sometimes even so far as to carefully set the action so the concave shape (again, very slight) is more pronounced in the area of the 5th, 6th string, or more pronounced for "aggressive" players.

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Permalink Reply by Wes "I'm Baaaaack" Yates on November 21, 2010 at 5:38am

Hah, just read this and I should have said the bow is forward. That's what I meant. The neck bows forward and the 2-13th frets are lower.

Good catch Don.

-WY


Don Thompson said:

Most guitarist perfer a dip in the neck when setting the adjustable truss rod. A rise will create buzzing, the area between the first fret and 14th fret HAS to be lower, not higher. The picture clearly shows that when the string is fretted at 1 and 14 there is a space between the string and the fret at the 6th fret, clearly showing the neck is lower there.
Don



Wes Yates said:

On most guitars [read: as I understand], when you set the action of the guitar, you want to have a slight bow upwards from the 1st - 14th fret. Perhaps a few thousandths of an inch but an upward bow none the less.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/TrussRods/TrussRo... (down toward the bottom)

-WY


Scotty C. said:

Wes Yates said:

Now, when you get really good at fretting, you can try a radius and I even create a slight dip in the FB much like the natural dip in a standard acoustic/electric. That is much more tricky as you can't gauge the fret level over a longer distance, but if you use a 4"-6" strip of steel bar (sanded flat) you can usually get the frets pretty level. You can also use a short sanding block and run over the frets. This will level them out but you will have to crown them.
-WY

Thanks for the advice, Wes. I've actually been using a 12" radius block for sanding the FB the last 2 or 3 times... I haven't used it to level frets much, however, because I too find it hard to keep the block steady over long distance across the FB to make sure the sanding "shape" of the fret crowns is equal.
PS-- what natural dip are you referring to? That's a new one to me...

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