Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Randy Webb on January 27, 2010 at 9:55am

"And here is the blues-cimer. I just made two and the are lots of fun to play, you can easily use Shane's videos over in "how to play" to get lots of ideas for improvising.

0 3 7 10 12 (optional 6)"

Why wouldn't you have the 5th fret on a "Blues-cimer (lol, i like that name)

With the blues scale being the minor pentatonic.
Root - Minor 3rd - 4th - 5th -7th - Octave (0 3 5 7 10 12 frets)
Plus the "Blue Note" which is the Flat 5. (0 3 5 6 7 10 12 frets)

So without the 5th and the 6th fret it would be a 4 tone scale or quartertonic (made up word) instead of pentatonic.

And if you add the 5th fret, but no 6th, then it's the minor pentatonic and not the "blues" scale...

Or am i missing something in the Dulcimer translation? Not being a butt-head, i'm genuinely curious.

Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on January 27, 2010 at 11:50am

I dont have and have never played a dulcimer, but I know just from noodling on the strumstick that the 10th fret (flat 7) is useful even in basic 1/5/1 tuning. Its where the differential between the 1 and the 5 comes into play..

So essentially you use this fret for the second string but the one after for strings 1 & 3..

If you look at a piano, there are 7 white notes and 5 black ones, and the black ones are grouped in a pair and a trio..
Yes, we are just leaving out the black keys, but because one of our strings is turned to the 5th, one of its black notes, and one of its white notes are in a different place.. this is that extra white note for that string...

I hope that makes sense..

(edit / addition)
this rule holds true across all modes and will actually become more important as you incorporate a capo and experiment with modes..

I love the idea of using a capo on a diatonic fretboard to explore modes btw and have been doing it for a couple of years. You really can find some new sounds instantly its great. One idea that fascinates me is having say a strumstick in g (as I do) and building for example a dorian mode one in A or a phrygian mode one in B for jamming together.. These are the same notes, but with different reference or pivot point only.

Diane in Chicago said:

better link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxSGyjbo-4k and:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz3RObNJWGo
Diane in Chicago said:

And this is why the optional #10 comes in handy, when you are tuning ionian (DAC)
http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/video/blue-hand-medieval-song

Permalink Reply by Randy Webb on January 27, 2010 at 11:58am

So instead of fretting the 5th, (of the scale not the fret) you just play the open string that's tuned to the 5th?

They (according to Dianes chart) have a 5th fret on the regular Dulcimer, so since it is also part of the blues, and minor pentatonic scale, i cant understand leaving it off a "Blues scale" version of the dulcimer.

Jef Long said:

I hope that makes sense..

Diane in Chicago said:

better link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxSGyjbo-4k

and:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz3RObNJWGo
Diane in Chicago said:

And this is why the optional #10 comes in handy, when you are tuning ionian (DAC)
http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/video/blue-hand-medieval-song

Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on January 27, 2010 at 12:42pm

She's already got the 5th.. on the other string ;) main thing is she has the blue notes (a flat 3 and a flat 7,) and a root note to resolve em too.. By leaving out the 2 and the 6 she is transcending modes, could be any of the 3 minor modes (and will in fact work in 3 minor keys.. ;)

A scale is just a collection of notes, u know? these instruments are limited by definition, but the other side of the coin is they're super easy to play, you can pass them around to people who dont know much about music at all, kids etc.. And even saying they're limited, that doesn't mean they cant make great music at all.. If you have a few instruments, guitars or whatever then you know each one has a personality or whatever that manifests not only in its sound, but in the kind of things it inspires you to play on it.. Ripping a fret out or pulling a string off or altering the tuning is, at least for me, a fantastic way to make an instrument unique and impact on its voice u know ?

Randy Webb said:

So instead of fretting the 5th, (of the scale not the fret) you just play the open string that's tuned to the 5th?

They (according to Dianes chart) have a 5th fret on the regular Dulcimer, so since it is also part of the blues, and minor pentatonic scale, i cant understand leaving it off a "Blues scale" version of the dulcimer.

Jef Long said:

I hope that makes sense..

Diane in Chicago said:

better link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxSGyjbo-4k

and:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz3RObNJWGo
Diane in Chicago said:

And this is why the optional #10 comes in handy, when you are tuning ionian (DAC)
http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/video/blue-hand-medieval-song

Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on January 27, 2010 at 12:45pm

Yes, I did use the 5.

So we have

0 3 5 7 10 12

I'll edit the discussion to show that.

Thanks.

I based this on Shane's video #2 under Free Resources at the top of this page.

Randy Webb said:

So instead of fretting the 5th, (of the scale not the fret) you just play the open string that's tuned to the 5th?

They (according to Dianes chart) have a 5th fret on the regular Dulcimer, so since it is also part of the blues, and minor pentatonic scale, i cant understand leaving it off a "Blues scale" version of the dulcimer.

Jef Long said:

I hope that makes sense..

Diane in Chicago said:

better link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxSGyjbo-4k

and:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz3RObNJWGo
Diane in Chicago said:

And this is why the optional #10 comes in handy, when you are tuning ionian (DAC)
http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/video/blue-hand-medieval-song

Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on January 27, 2010 at 12:48pm

You are way more sophisticated about this stuff than me, I went with what worked. But yes, the 5 belongs in, and I had it on my blues-cimers. But it did not make it into the post ;-)

Randy Webb said:

"And here is the blues-cimer. I just made two and the are lots of fun to play, you can easily use Shane's videos over in "how to play" to get lots of ideas for improvising.
0 3 7 10 12 (optional 6)"
Why wouldn't you have the 5th fret on a "Blues-cimer (lol, i like that name)

With the blues scale being the minor pentatonic.
Root - Minor 3rd - 4th - 5th -7th - Octave (0 3 5 7 10 12 frets)
Plus the "Blue Note" which is the Flat 5. (0 3 5 6 7 10 12 frets)

So without the 5th and the 6th fret it would be a 4 tone scale or quartertonic (made up word) instead of pentatonic.

And if you add the 5th fret, but no 6th, then it's the minor pentatonic and not the "blues" scale...

Or am i missing something in the Dulcimer translation? Not being a butt-head, i'm genuinely curious.

Permalink Reply by Randy Webb on January 27, 2010 at 4:40pm

Diane,
Thanks for clearing that up.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to make it who's right who's wrong thing, I was genuinely trying to wrap my head around it.

I had been thinking about making some dulcimers and knew nothing about them and that's how I ended up here. I am a blues guy so when I saw "blues-cimer" I got excited at the possibility that hadn't even occured to me before while learning about dulcimers.

So thanks all, for helping me get my head around it. (A little anyway)

Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on January 27, 2010 at 5:29pm

Thank YOU! This has been up for a while, and you are the first to notice the missing five!

Randy Webb said:

Diane,
Thanks for clearing that up.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to make it who's right who's wrong thing, I was genuinely trying to wrap my head around it.

I had been thinking about making some dulcimers and knew nothing about them and that's how I ended up here. I am a blues guy so when I saw "blues-cimer" I got excited at the possibility that hadn't even occured to me before while learning about dulcimers.

So thanks all, for helping me get my head around it. (A little anyway)

Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on January 28, 2010 at 1:05am

A pentatonic built in is a great idea regardless..
A basic major pentatonic say 1,2,4,5,6 or 1,2,3,4,6 would be super too..

Permalink Reply by Penny Nelson on January 31, 2010 at 9:44am

thanks for the info Diane - thats great. I love my Frankendulcimer but to have a Blue-Cimer would be great...

Permalink Reply by Mike Willmouth on March 12, 2010 at 6:53am

OK, I'm lost. I'm building my grand daugther an 18" (46mm) diatonic scale CBG. I used the Stewart MacDonald on line fret calculator for a Dulcimer. I have 12 frets listed with measurements -- so is everyone here saying I should leave out some of the frets? If so, which ones? Which frets would be best to keep for a 6 yr old? My printout it shows fret 8 as an octave, so what should I do with it? Or should I just put all the frets on the fretboard and not worry about removing any of them?

Permalink Reply by Diane in Chicago on March 12, 2010 at 12:25pm

if you used the "dulcimer" setting on the stewmac calculator, you already have left out the frets. Standard chromatic fretting has 12 to the octave. Dulcimer has 8. Use what you have and you are good to go.

Mike Willmouth said:

OK, I'm lost. I'm building my grand daugther an 18" (46mm) diatonic scale CBG. I used the Stewart MacDonald on line fret calculator for a Dulcimer. I have 12 frets listed with measurements -- so is everyone here saying I should leave out some of the frets? If so, which ones? Which frets would be best to keep for a 6 yr old? My printout it shows fret 8 as an octave, so what should I do with it? Or should I just put all the frets on the fretboard and not worry about removing any of them?

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