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Fifths vs fourths

Posted by harley on May 11, 2015 at 1:03pm in Performances, How to Play, Lessons, Concerts

     A question for anyone who might know; I have a 3-stringer with a 22.5" scale. After doing a LOT of research on the subject, I've narrowed the two tuning options down to Ae'b' (all fifths tuning) or Ad'f#. I'm attracted to the logic of all fifths tuning, but everything I can find on the subject is for four strings or more. Would three strings in fifths be a flexible and facile tuning for someone who focused on solo chord melody playing, or would I be better off going with Ad'f#?

   (For the record, I'm not too terribly interested in slide. The ability to do so is a bonus of open tuning, but it's a very minor one from my perspective.)

   Thanks in advance.

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Replies

  • Cause the Blue rat May 12, 2015 at 7:21pm

    Actually a Cello and Viola share the same tuning of C D G A . However a violin tunes to G D A E and a double bass tunes to  E A D G. Also most instruments within an orchestra have different tunings. Each one plays a part based on it's tuning. Even the kettle drums are tuned. 

    I'e used alternate tunings wile playing in a rock band. As long as what your playing is in the same key as everyone else it works. So if you were to tune a three string guitar to a G you'll be able to play along with a six string guitar in standard tuning. As long as the son is in the key of G. Now for blues I know you use a different key harmonica to play along with a minor blues progression. Perhaps it's possible to do the same with a three string tuned to 1 5 8. You would end up getting the same bluesy sound as the harmonica player. 

    Harley, . It's a good idea to start with a single tuning to get the feel of your instrument. Once your comfortable explore as many different tunings as you can. Take time with each one of them. Each new tuning will give you a new 'feel' and grove. 

  • harley May 12, 2015 at 6:45pm
    Valid points if your goal is playing with an orchestra, or even a band. I have no such aspirations. This is purely for my own enjoyment.
  • Cause the Blue rat May 12, 2015 at 4:25pm

    Yep, that's the beauty of alternant tunings. You will find one you like. Then try another. Then another.....another one..... and still more.... Best to keep a video library of all the songs you come up with. And before you start to play remember to say what tuning and what key your guitar is in. 

  • The Phrygian Kid May 11, 2015 at 5:59pm
    If you push your fifths tuning down a couple frets and have them converge at the middle string rather than the bass one ie GDA then you should be able to have both with the same strings. Guys have been retuning their guitars even mid-set forever. You don't have to marry the tuning to try it out :)
    • harley > The Phrygian Kid May 11, 2015 at 8:15pm

      I'm afraid I don't get your point with this one. Sorry.

      • turtlehead > harley May 11, 2015 at 8:48pm

        I think what the Kid is saying is if you were tuned to ADF#, it's easy to tune the A down to G and the F# up to A and you have a fifths tuning of GDA.  You've also got GDG right there too, so that gives you three tunings to play around with on the same guitar without changing strings.

        • harley > turtlehead May 11, 2015 at 8:51pm

          Ah. Okay, I get it now. Thanks.

          Words to consider, actually. 

  • The Phrygian Kid May 11, 2015 at 4:58pm
    A perfect fifth is a big stretch (7 frets) so it is best suited for shorter necks. At 22" you're right on the cusp (similar length to a cello) of the longest neck anybody regularly tunes to 5ths. This means that at the open position it can be difficult to reach every note without some lateral movement, where in 4ths you will be able to run a scale quite comfortably without any shift. So that is an argument for 4ths. On the other hand tuning to 5ths will give you a greater range. A 5ths tuning certainly will give you bigger, wider voicings to chords, which can sound tight and 'boxy' when you tune only three strings to 4ths. So each has its upside, it's really swings and roundabouts. Most guys tune a 3 string gdg, which is one of each.

    A perfect fifth and a perfect fourth are inversions of each other incidentally, so any chord or scale diagram for one can be used on the other by reading it upside down ;)
  • TN Twang May 11, 2015 at 2:59pm

    Hey. Me again.

    All-fifths tuning makes perfect sense to fiddle players, mandolin players and 4-string banjo players.

    Guitar pickers are not likely to go beyond 3rds and 4ths because the frets are so far apart that you'd need gorilla hands to play four notes of a major scale before moving over to the next string. Bass guitar players (with a 34" scale) have to really suffer to play a major scale on strings tuned a 4th apart.

    With your 22.5 inch scale your frets may be reachable, but anything you learn tuned in fifths will only transfer to a mandolin or tenor banjo--not to a full-size guitar.

    • harley > TN Twang May 11, 2015 at 3:50pm

      I actually have no interest in full guitar. Lovely instruments, but not for me. Partly, this is because I decided to dedicate my limited time to something simpler. (Better to master something simple than to be mediocre at something complex is my thinking on the matter.) And, partly it's because I have a bit of neurological damage in my left hand, so fewer strings are an advantage.

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