A friend of mine gave me (2) of these.  I am guessing they are for a 4-string tenor classical guitar.  They have NO... read that as ZERO markings on them.  Can anyone tell me anything about them?  I did some research and came up empty, so far.  What instrument were they used on? How old do you think they are?

 

Sorry about the glare in the photo but, there really isn't much to see, as far as I can tell anyway.

 

I am sure someone out there in CBN is astute enough to help me in this quest.

 

Thanks for your help.  I want to make sure I do them justice, if they are something special.

 

Kidd

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Kidd,

Only thing I've found so far that looks remotely like those is here:

http://www.deval.com.br/cavaquinho.asp

Also, Wikipedia has a pic on the Tenor Guitar article of a 1930's era National Resophonic tenor guitar with two on a plate tuners.

Hey there Oilyfool;

 

Thanks for the research.  You did better than me.  I think I did see the Wiki photos.  That's what kind of told me they may be something special.  If they really are for a 1930's National, I'd rather they go to someone who has one or does that work.  Its hard to tell with no name or number stamped into them.  I'll start narrowing my search in this area and see where it takes me.

 

Thanks a bunch Oilyfool... I really appreciate it;

Kidd

Kidd,

Been out of wireless range for a week. Glad to help. I got to looking at your pics of your tuners...in comparing them with the ones on the Wiki pic of the 30's National, the Wiki pic looks like the tuning machines are farther apart than yours are. The distance between tuning pegs on yours look identical to the spacing between the currently available 3 on a plate tuners. This leads me to very softly suggest that those that you have are probably not 1930's vintage, but instead are the "vintage" types found on 1950's era Harmony, Kay or Stella tenor guitars ( just located this pic of a 50's Harmony tenor: http://www.broadwaymusicco.com/tenorgitar.jpg ) During the late 50's - early 60's there were lots of guitar makers in So - Cal, like Semi Mosely, for example, that were using lots of weird spare parts combos from wherever they could scrounge them.

Oilyfoot;

 

I got to looking after your comment.  Duh.....  I forgot that I actually have an old Harmony tenor guitar, that I picked-up at  garage sale a few years ago for a couple bucks..  I never even thought of looking at it.  However, I did and have included a couple better shots for comparison.  This particular tenor is a mid to late 60's build.  You'll notice that the tuner plates are much longer than the ones we have been discussing.  That's not to say they aren't for a tenor guitar of similar manufacturing or maker. 

 

You are sooo right about 1-offs and such from many builders in So Cal.  I used to work 1 block away form Front Porch Music in Bakersfield, CA.  They have some really cool axes in there and Artie is very knowledgeable on all guitar builders and makes.  A really cool place to just look at what's hanging on the wall.

 

Thanks for digging Oilyfoot.  I was really doubting they were worth any REAL $$, but I am just wanting to be sure before I might do something stupid.

 

Happy CBG'g;

Kidd

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I would be interesting to see if you could find some matching ones in 3 and 6 configuration for different string combinations.

Eric;

 

That would be pretty cool and is along the lines of what I was thinking of doing.  My next build will be a 5-string rezzo and these 2-on-a-plate machines would come in handy.  Finding "matching" 3 or 6 plates might prove to be a tuff row to hoe.  But, I'm into the fun of researching things like this.  I actually surfed quite a few hours and really came up with nothing on the 2-plate... plenty on 3-plate versions, but nothing that matched these particular ones.  I am sure they're out there.

 

A good friend of mine thought these actually might be for a banjo and not a guitar... which he may be right. 

 

Thanks for commenting on my question.

Kidd

The Harmony plates are identical to those on my 1950s Harmony Reso-tone banjo, same 2-3/4" spacing, same engraving, almost the same rust spots.  Keep them oiled and they'll last forever.

Kidd Filby said:

Oilyfoot;

 

I got to looking after your comment.  Duh.....  I forgot that I actually have an old Harmony tenor guitar, that I picked-up at  garage sale a few years ago for a couple bucks..  I never even thought of looking at it.  However, I did and have included a couple better shots for comparison.  This particular tenor is a mid to late 60's build.  You'll notice that the tuner plates are much longer than the ones we have been discussing.  That's not to say they aren't for a tenor guitar of similar manufacturing or maker. 

 

You are sooo right about 1-offs and such from many builders in So Cal.  I used to work 1 block away form Front Porch Music in Bakersfield, CA.  They have some really cool axes in there and Artie is very knowledgeable on all guitar builders and makes.  A really cool place to just look at what's hanging on the wall.

 

Thanks for digging Oilyfoot.  I was really doubting they were worth any REAL $$, but I am just wanting to be sure before I might do something stupid.

 

Happy CBG'g;

Kidd

Steel string tuners, judging by the skinny barrels.  Stretchy gut/nylon needs a larger diameter to take up the extra slack.  Tall barrels look like they're made for slotted pegheads.  They'd be great for a lap slide.

Chuck;

 

I was thinking they were missing parts when I first got them given to me but, after looking around I think they are all there.  Initially, I was confused about them because I thought they should have the barrels you're talking about.  A friend of mine thought they were for rear-mount as opposed to side mount, due to the location of the String hole.   You make a very good point about the lap slide.  They are long, which would give awesome spacing between the neck and strings.  I actually have a request for a lap CBG.  Now that you brought this up, maybe I'll use these for that.

 

Thanks for the great info about both my Harmony and the 2-on-a-plate tuners.  I knew there were much smarter people on this subject than a green-horn like me.

 

Have a great day;

Kidd

 

Chuck Dubman said:

Steel string tuners, judging by the skinny barrels.  Stretchy gut/nylon needs a larger diameter to take up the extra slack.  Tall barrels look like they're made for slotted pegheads.  They'd be great for a lap slide.
Gents,
Interesting discussion! After seeing the close-ups, but before reading Chuck's reply, I was gonna suggest that the inclined stamping / decorative ridges were identical on the 2-on-a-plate short-spaced tuners and the longer Harmony tuners. Based on the stamping similarity alone, I was thinking either uke (except those tend even now to use one-per-string individual planetary friction tuners), or banjo made by Harmony / Stella.

Here's a nice link to a great Harmony database:

http://harmony.demont.net/

Unfortunately, the only pics of the banjo headstock reverses on this site show single individual string tuners at what looks like the longer spacing.

hey there Oilyfoot;

 

The pieces are starting to fall together now, with the help of people like you.  Thanks for the link. 

 

Yeah.... it's looking like I wont do them any dis-justice by not putting them on a National.  I feel better about it now.  Not that I'm a purist, but I'd hate to think I had a really nice pair of tuners that somebody needed to complete a beautiful National Reso, but I put them on a CBG that somebody is kicking around in the dirt at a camp fire with.  It's like stumbling across a factory Dual-Quad intake for a 1969 Chevy Camaro DZ 302 and putting it on the farm truck, because it looks cool.

 

Thanks everyone for you input and time.  It's been a great string and I'm having fun.

Kidd

Kidd,

I hear you about the carb! But look at it this way: if all you have is a DQ and a farm truck, why not make it look kewl?

No rules, right?

Anyhoo, I stayed up last night going through every single link on that Harmony website, to see if any of the instruments had tuners identical to yours (I sometimes refuse to let things go, especially if there's detail involved. They say that's where both God and the devil are involved ;-) ). All I can tell you is 1) I learned an awful lot about the history of Harmony guitars, so much so that I have a renewed attack of GAS (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome), and 2) your tuners had to have been made by the same supplier as supplied Harmony with parts in the very late 50's to very early 60's.

The reasons I believe this are 1) the inclined stamped decorative ridges on the tuner plate, 2) the outline of the tuner plate, especially at the ends, which have a sort of diagonal cut to them, 3) the tuner buttons shape and size, 4) the direction of the worm gearing. These are all identical on your tuners and the 3-on-a-plate tuners on the Harmony / Stella acoustics from that period, as far as I could tell from their and your pics.

One other thought I had was that the ends of your tuner plate outline, at least in your close up pic, do not appear to be identical. One end has the "typical" diagonal cut, but the other does not appear to. Is this true? If so, then you may want to look very closely with a magnifying glass at the "different" end for evidence of tool marks. I remember an acquaintance of mine who used to work at Rockin' Robin Guitar Shop in Houston, Texas during the late 70's, who repaired guitars. He would occasionally cut off a tuner from a 3-on-a-plate set if he needed a single tuner for a cheap quickie repair. Maybe yours were originally 3-on-a-plate tuners that had been "modified" Dunno, just something to consider.

Probably waaaayyy more detail than you wanted! Did I mention some people think I have OCD?

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