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I Hate Fretting... There, I said it!

I am not sure what my problem is... according to most videos and articles I have read or seen fretting isn't supposed to be all that bad. I have the PDF from Josh G (forget how to spell his last name), I bought and watched Red Dog's DVD (watched it a couple of times when it came to the part on fretting). I did the same with Bill Jehle's DVD. I watched Big Daddy's video series on YouTube (several times). I just cannot get a handle on fretting.

Now with Cigar Box Guitars most would say, "So! Go Fretless!". I have done that, and still like doing that for certain guitars, but the truth of the matter is, I can't play slide all that great (although I am getting better), but I prefer to fret an instrument. I can actually play something if I can fret it. It's what I am most used to.

Is there anyone else who can empathize/sympathize, and maybe has gotten past this? I am to the point of looking for Luthier Classes somewhere, anywhere! (and sadly not finding any local to my area in NC). I just need someone to hands on show me is the only thing I can think. I honestly do not know what I am doing wrong. I am following all the tips and tricks I can find (for the most part, minus a few expensive tools). I am almost at my wits end with fretting an instrument, yet there are so many more instruments (CBGs, Guitars, Basses, Canjos, Cookie Tin Builds, etc....) that I want to build.

So far, I have tried to fret roughly 10 guitar (one of them is for the 3rd time). Out of those, only half turned out okay (three turning out really well (one I used bobby pins for the frets) and the other two just okay)). The other half were an awful mess that make no sense and piss me off to no end.

Any ideas?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom Drommond on October 5, 2015 at 11:47am

I've installed frets in the majority of the CBGs I've built. I started off using a framing square and a dovetail saw. It was nerve racking, not worked fine in the end. I recently bought thefret box and japanese draw saw that is a set from Stew Mac. Made all the difference in the world. What took 3 hours of sweat and tears, now takes 20 minutes of quick work. Best $200 I've spent in a while. Additionally, use real fret wire It's not that expensive and makes it much easier than cobbling something together with bobby pins. Get some of these, too

Permalink Reply by Brian Revels on October 5, 2015 at 12:30pm

The bobby pins were my second fret job (after the first one was such a bust). It worked out well for the dulcimer-scale canjo I made, but I didn't like all the glue I had to use. In that respect it was harder than traditional frets too, getting and keeping the pins where I wanted them before the glue set (and not my fingers to the board).

Permalink Reply by Richey Kay on October 5, 2015 at 11:49am

Hi Brian. What exactly is the problem with your fretting jobs?
I have found that having the correct tools makes a huge difference. A proper fret slotting saw, a good mitre box, some superglue, a flat file are all you really need. I did recently buy a fret crowning kit (file and sandpaper) and that's just made things better. (I use a sharpening stone to level the frets).
Anyway, I'm sure myself or loads of other folks should be able to help you out!

Permalink Reply by Brian Revels on October 5, 2015 at 12:43pm

It takes me forever it seems (at least 2 hours). I was using a cheap pull saw from Harbor Freight to cut the frets slots (same one I see a lot of people use). But my slots were to wide, and not holding the frets when hammered in. My last board, I saw a technique of using a scroll saw to cut the slots. This seemed to work better, but then the slots were too thin for the medium fretwire I had and I had to file the slots to make it fit.

My biggest things is getting the intonation right. I will measure 3 times using a CBGitty Scale, or even a digital caliper that does to 3 decimal places with it's inches and millimeters (and go fret to fret). I have tried both ways. Once I spend all this time, and effort slotting, fretting, filing, dressing... then the frets are off and I can't get the guitar to intonate right. The harmonics are always spot on, and it's fine with a slide, but fretting is either off when fretting, or I can't get all the strings to intonate (one but not the other two, or the outer two, but not the middle).

Permalink Reply by Richey Kay on October 5, 2015 at 8:26pm

Have you ruled out bridge/nut height for your intonation troubles? What about string gauges? It will be difficult to get all 3 strings intonated close to perfect if the don't have similar or equal tension.
I'm beginning to think there might be nothing wrong with your fret jobs. If the harmonics are right...the positions are right. What strings do you use, out of interest?

Permalink Reply by gary sheldon on October 6, 2015 at 2:49am

I use a little Irwin pull saw. Not fancy,no stiffner on the back, But it works perfectly. I even bought a spare and it is labeled fret slots only. The slots are nice and tight.

The time spent building the fret slot jig is time well used, indeed.

If you can get your "pattern" fretboard perfect, you will have many fewer problems. I have one for 25 5/8 and one 15" concert uke

I end up cutting the slots shallow, then go back with the saw and cut them a little deeper, by eyeball outside the jig.

Also, don't measure fret to fret. Just go from nut to each fret.

Permalink Reply by Richey Kay on October 6, 2015 at 7:04pm

I'm thinking that the actual fret spacing isn't the problem here...if the harmonics are correct and it works with a slide they are probably fine. I am thinking it's either action too high or the strings have radically different tensions.

Permalink Reply by Jim Dickison on October 7, 2015 at 6:45am

I, too, use a Harbor Freight Japanese saw, and it works great... BUT... I hear that newer versions of this saw have a wider kerf than the original did. This may be a big part of your problem.

Permalink Reply by Wichita Sam on October 15, 2015 at 1:16pm

your intonation might not be with the fret placement, but with string height. The more a string is elevated off the fret the more a string will "sharpen" when depressed. check out string height. If it looks high, compared to other guitars, that might be the issue.

the best,

Wichita Sam

Permalink Reply by gary sheldon on October 5, 2015 at 12:04pm

I guess you could separate the fret job to about 4 parts.

Cutting slots

installing frets

trimming fret ends

leveling, etc.

I have the most trouble with the fret ends. I finally made a little jig to help me cut the frets just a hair less than the fretboard width. The beveling is not too bad and the edge filing goes pretty well.

Make sure your fretboard is very level and do the same to the top of the neck.

You shouldn't have to do much in the way of fret leveling. Especially if your action is not too insanely low. I seem to have a consistent problem with fret1 being too low. I don't have an answer to that one yet.

Everyone has their own method. I hammer the frets in before attaching the fretboard to neck. When glueing I put a flat hardwood board across all the frets and use plenty of clamps. That helps to set the frets firmly (I think). I do not glue the frets and haven't had problems with them loosening.

Also I made and use a fret slot copying jig. That makes the slotting pretty easy.

Permalink Reply by Brian Revels on October 5, 2015 at 12:48pm

Fret ends are bad for me as well. It just sounds like I need to break open my wallet and buy some specialty tools. 20 mins for slots is a whole lot better than how long I take now. The Luke Skywalker Lightsaber Guitar and the Mail Box 2-string Canjo... both of those I snipped and dressed the fret ends before I hammered them in. I cut them slightly shorter like you mentioned. These two turned out pretty great. It seemed like it took forever to cut the wire, and then beveling each end with a file (instead of all at once at the end, once they were seated), but then again... that may just be what I have to do if I want to fret.

Permalink Reply by Tom Drommond on October 5, 2015 at 12:52pm

The fret nippers make trimming the fret ends a breeze. I like my frets to go all the way to the edge of the fret board and to be rolled on the end. I leave them slightly over the edge by enough to get a good bite with the fret nippers. By using the proper slotting saw, my fret slots are exactly right and require no gluing. I don't level them, either. My string heights are set more for slide with a few fretted notes to add some spice. Fret buzz is not an issue. After 8 years working as a professional aircraft mechanic and countless years in the workshop, I've learned the hard way that there's no replacement for the right tool. Everything else is a "good enough" solution and takes extra time and effort. I've been cheap and I've been smart. I've rarely been both.