Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by SuprrrNaut on May 31, 2011 at 2:07am

the reason your getting so much conflicting information is because everyone does it their own way. There are no rules, just what you decide to do for tuning. when I did my 3 string I did G,D,A strings. on my 4 string I omitted the high and low E strings. Just my preference.

Permalink Reply by ChickenboneJohn on May 31, 2011 at 2:29am

Forget whether it's an A, D or G string, or 1st 2nd 3rd etc, just figure out which gauges you should be using.  These are usually indicated on the string packets in inches. for example, I like to use .036, .024 and .018 on my 3 strings, tuning them C - G - C octave low to high. These days I usually buy single strings in bulk rather than full sets, that way I can make up my own custom sets to suit. I use an $8 digital vernier gauge to check string sizes on guitars if I'm not sure what they are already strung with - cheap and foolproof.

 

The gauges you use will depend on the tuning you want ....or vice versa!

Permalink Reply by Mike Whisenhunt on May 31, 2011 at 3:19am

Alright. I'm as straightened out as a pretzel. Seems I have been over thinking this. Back to the lab.....

Permalink Reply by MichaelS Country Boy Guitars on May 31, 2011 at 7:30am

To avoid snapping strings again, get used to the tension on your cbg that works well and if the strings star getting a lot tighter, tune it back some. The strings you use may not work well with gdg, so try another tuning till it sounds good with the strings you have.   Advise from music shops is only as good as the cng's they have made or played, my shop advised me once also (my fault, I asked) and I hated his string choice.

Permalink Reply by Mike Whisenhunt on June 1, 2011 at 3:31am

I'm typically  a guy that over analyzes things, that's why I keep asking different sources for their input. I'm learning with CBG's ya just jump in, screw up and learn!

Permalink Reply by Bad Finger (Eric) on June 1, 2011 at 4:54am

Yup.

 

Mike Whisenhunt said:

I'm typically  a guy that over analyzes things, that's why I keep asking different sources for their input. I'm learning with CBG's ya just jump in, screw up and learn!

Permalink Reply by Mike Whisenhunt on June 2, 2011 at 3:02pm

I don't think this guitar will ever get tuned. My friend I built it for dropped by today now that I have put frets on it. He brought the missing string (g) that we had snapped before. I already had strings 5 and 4 on it and tuned when he showed up. I grabbed the string from the pack, put it on and began tightening it down to tune. Oddly it got REEEEAL tight way before it hit the upper G. Upon closer inspection it seems that he grabbed another 4 string. I sent him home with the gitty, told him to get the right string and tune it. He is very pleased with the CBG just frustrated he still can't play with it. Is there some chart that will cross reference string gauges with its corresponding lettered note?

Permalink Reply by Matt Quinney on June 29, 2011 at 3:31am

I asked a similar question on the scale length group, i.e. what scale length do you use if you are going for open G tuning?   So, how do you design, choose scale length and worry about string sizes later,  or choose string sizes and figure out what scale length you use.   It would be cool if there was a matrix of scale length vs string size vs notes when string is at a normal tension............

Permalink Reply by Mike Whisenhunt on June 29, 2011 at 4:06am

So far I've done 4 builds, all with different scale lengths and a mix of string sizes. I haven't noticed any correlation between scale length and string size, then again my scales have been within  2 or 3 inches of each other. I think the biggest thing is what sound you want. If you want a bright sound, I've had good luck using the d, g, and b strings from a 6 pack. I think the more mellow and bluesy feel you should go with the a, d and g. That said, tuning those strings is up to you entirely.

Permalink Reply by Keni Lee Burgess on June 29, 2011 at 4:54am

Higher pitch string instruments use thinner strings and have shorter scales. Example ukulele.

Lower pitch string instruments use thicker strings and have longer scales. Example upright bass.

The size of the sound box is determined by the range of pitch. Example: A guitar size is somewhere in between a uke and bass.

Notice how the frets are further apart by the headstock and get closer together by the soundhole.

This is because bass notes have bigger steps to the next note than higher notes do.

It is of course possible to adjust the scale length to a certain amount.

If the scale gets too short or too long, standard guitar gauges will not tune to the required pitches.

Also, frets too close or far apart may make fingering chords difficult.

Basically the correct string tension is needed to drive the sound board correctly, making it vibrate and create good volume / sustain. Too loose...no vibrations...too tight...locks up the guitar.

For a guitar to play well and produce a quality tone, these following things need to be considered and must have the proper relationship.

Neck angle, nut and bridge height, action (string height from fingerboard), scale length, string gauge, tuning, string tension, intonation (plays perfectly in tune over the entire fingerboard).

Experimenting and building crude prototypes, should yield good success over time.

I hope you find this information helpful. Enjoy your build, Keni Lee

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Rand Moore on July 14, 2011 at 11:35am

Hi All.

 

I replied 7 hours ago to Matt Quinney's post to the Scale Lengths discussion group, and since the two questions are basically the same, I have copied that response below. I must add that Keni Lee is right on the mark with his observation that scale length is related to the pitch range of the instrument (ukes verese basses, etc.). Here's what I wrote earlier...

---

Hi Matt

There may be some reason a particular tuning would require a particular scale length, but I don't know what the reason would be. Let me think about that question a bit. String tension is the only reason I can think of. Rather than explain it all here, you can read about string length and string tension at this link: Liutaio Mottola. If you exceed the string tension by a lot, then you break the string. Other than that, you can use the open G tuning with any scale length, assuming you pick the right strings.

When selecting a scale length, I consider ease of fingering and my preference is for a shorter scale length instrument. Most of the ones I make have a 50cm (a tad less than 20"), but then my instruments all tend to be diatonically fretted (seven frets per octave instead of 12 like the major scales) for easier learning/playing for novices. For chromatically fretted instruments, you will likely want a somewhat longer scale length so there will be sufficient room between frets for easy fingering, especially above the 12th fret.

When working with a new scale length, I often look to see what sized strings similar instruments use and either try them, or guitar strings of similar size. For instance if you decide on building a 3-Stringer, say a 24" scale, chromatically fretted, tuned to G-D-G', you can look at the standard set of guitar strings: E-A-D-G-B-e and see that the A-D-G strings would work if you tuned A back  down to G. So, as a first attempt, you could try the 3rd, 4th and 5th stings from a set of standard guitar strings. If you are going to use magnetic pickups (pups), however, you should make sure all your strings are steel, and you may find you need to go with electric guitar strings. Piezoelectric pickups will work on all types of strings, even nylon.

 

Also, here is a link to an easy to use string gauge calculator recommended by Diane in Chicago. 

 

-Rand.

 

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In Mike Whisenhunt's case, I'd advise using the above mentioned string gauge calculator to make sure the string you choose is strong enough for the note you are trying to tune it to. If not, try a somewhat thicker string.

-Rand.

Permalink Reply by Barry Evan Russ on October 11, 2011 at 9:23am

I just built a 4 string, and tuned it to open D.  D F# A D .  I had string breakage problems using very heavy strings .016-.20-.34-.42.  Then I changed the strings to 14-17-26-36(34?) from a standard D'Addario Jazz medium set, replacing the 13 (high) string with a 14.  Works great, no string breaks.  Hope that helps.

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