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Tin reinforcement question

Hi all of you builders of funky instruments,

I have this pretty nougat tin from France lying around here and it yearns to be made into some kind of stringed instrument. I’m thinking short scale guitar with nylon strings, either a four stringer or a six stringer with three double courses tuned like a three stringer...

I don’t know yet whether I’ll make it a neck-through or even a “neck-around” (something like this:) I have only built instruments with wooden boxes so far and never worked with a tin – and that’s where my question comes in:

How do I reinforce this thing so that the pressure of the strings doesn’t cave in the fairly thin and flexible lid without dampening the vibration of the lid too much? How do you reinforce your tins?

All kinds of advice (and, even better: pictures) greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Hans

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Permalink Reply by Kigar on April 6, 2018 at 12:26pm

I have done two tins with the "go around" method. The first was a stout tin which needed no reinforcements. The second one nearly collapsed the first time it was tuned up. I ended up and put a block sort of like a upside down bridge under the bridge and another solid block at the tail end. If it can be opened after building it, then it can always be reinforced. Fewer strings and a low bridge would help take away some stress too.

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Permalink Reply by Hans on April 6, 2018 at 9:05pm

Thanks so much, guys, this is fun!

These discussions here on CBN are a very nice vicarious satisfaction for people like me who do not have nearly enough spare time to actually pursue all the building projects buzzing around in their heads… (right now I’m planning a four string wine box bass, the refurbishment of a cheap and beat up classical guitar I got for five bucks at the flea market, an acoustic six string made from an old drawer, this tin here, and various other ideas… parts and boxes are piling up in my tiny workshop and my brain is stuffed with guitar ideas while I don’t even find the time to change the strings on two guitars that desperately need it…).

And now I have at least two plans for my nougat tin:

Victoria sounds really sweet, Korrigan, this tin-in-the-box thing is really something I’d like to try!

And re stealing: I really thought that the neck-around thing was my own idea, but looking at your pictures, Kigar, I realized that I must have seen your beautiful boy scout mess tin build at some point… This is exactly what I had in mind! And it would also make the “body” of this guitar bigger and heavier, which would probably make it much more comfortable to play.

I totally agree that it would take much more wood and effort to do the neck-around thing, Taffy, but it’s really not that I need another instrument quickly… It’s the challenge of doing something that I haven’t tried yet that get’s me going… The banjo style dowel between heel and tail block is also a great idea! And your tin violin is awesome! (Thank god I really can’t play the violin, otherwise I’d start planning violins too… but then again: I have lots of violinist friends… and my daughter plays the cello…)

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Permalink Reply by Titch the Clown on April 6, 2018 at 11:47pm

I have done around 150 or so stick to the end ukes. On bigger boxes or floppier lids I have left a mid support on the through neck about half way between where the bridge and where the neck goes into the body or thereabouts to prevent sagging.

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Permalink Reply by Hans on April 9, 2018 at 12:45am

Around 150? Jesus Christ!

Thanks, Titch.

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Permalink Reply by Kigar on April 8, 2018 at 12:39pm

I'm the same way Hans, I like to try something different each time and have to many ideas in my head.

Titch how do you ever get to 150? I probably average around 2 months per build!

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Permalink Reply by Hans on April 9, 2018 at 12:46am

Thanks, Erasmo! I should probably listen to you because unlike me you can actually play these things we build...

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Permalink Reply by Taffy Evans on April 7, 2018 at 1:19pm

Hi again Hanns, I realised I did not answer your question re you bracing a tin top. This is what I suggest.......

At the bridge position in side the box cut a brace that goes all the way across the lid and touches the sides of the tin ( you may have to check out the ends of the brace to clear any folds or ridges)

Then cut two posts/uprights that will sit against the sides long enough to support the brace at its ends and rest on the bottom of the tin. Small round head screws will hold the uprights to the sides. You could fix the brace to the top using strong double sided tape, to limit any vibration between tin top and wooden brace. This should leave a lot more of the top to vibrate. I think you would get a more fuller sound when using a sound hole/s, as smalland limited as it is, you will get the benefit of string vibration, top vibration and air resonance.

Hope this makes sense.

Taff

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Permalink Reply by Hans on April 9, 2018 at 12:47am

That sounds like a really good plan. Thanks for all the detailed advice, Taff!

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Permalink Reply by Korrigan on April 8, 2018 at 4:50am

Well I was going to work on my bass this weekend Hans, but you inspired me to build another tin-in-a-box to see if I get the same sound qualities as the first one. : )

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Permalink Reply by Korrigan on April 8, 2018 at 1:16pm

I'm trying out threaded rod to attach the tin and box...

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Permalink Reply by Hans on April 9, 2018 at 12:58am

Man, you're quick! I'm still thinking about different options and you have already built another one! And the fretboard seems to be fully fretted too (this alone usually takes me several hours to do...)

The threaded rod idea looks very interesting.

How do you cut the tin? Tinsnips? Dremel?

Well, I guess my next step will be the acquisition of another tin now, because I can't decide whether to build a Korrigan style tin-in-the-box guitar or a Kigar style neck-around-the-tin guitar...