Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by darryl kernaghan on September 21, 2016 at 11:25pm

I lack the musical knowledge, certainly the ability to utilise the idea, but i'd have thought those that do, could adequately create those tones by bending at a lower fret with the same result without the specialising of the fretboard, having said that, i've cut slots to suit those frets before

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Regan on September 22, 2016 at 1:34am

I don't see how this can be done successfully, to be honest. It's just so much easier and more adaptable just to learn to play in the style of the older players. Part of the reason the notes stand out is because it tends to be random and interplays with the "good note" and its buddies. Basically its something that is used at certain points to accent. It's not an accent if its on all the time. Any instrument can be played with those notes no matter what the tuning, it's just a matter of how hard are the chord shapes.

. I think anything that strays from the key should be the players choice to do, not the instrument automatically does it, if that makes sense.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by darryl kernaghan on September 22, 2016 at 1:52am

yep

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Fomhorach on September 22, 2016 at 3:02am

If you YouTube and listen to a real tone guitar, musically it doesn't sound really wierd. Comparing it to a just intonation or other exotic instrument and those sound really off the wall. The real tone instrument sounds a little bit cleaner than a normal instrument. Most people can't tell the difference.

I'm not proposing the notes should shift wildly out of tune, just ever so slightly to give it that certain something you can't quite put your finger on (sorry about he pun).

We could come up with a system that gives a CBG fretted with this type of fretboard a certain feel to it. Sure, if you want a straight built CBG that's what you get, but.. We also have the choice to make it subtlety blue.

We modify, chop, chang, rebuild and experiment in CBG construction all the time, we use bolts bones badges plastics wood nails doorhandles kitchen utensils etc etc all the time. On a whim.
We change scale lengths, fret with cotter pins, nails, windscreen wiper blades and the list goes on and on.

Move the 4th fret back 2mm the 5th back 1mm and the 8th fret forward 1mm and suddenly it's wrong?
Yes, make the wrong change by the wrong amount and we build something that just sounds wrong.
I'm proposing though that we find that right small change to create a flavour in the instrument that can be reproduced.

Imagine "this one here (points to a CBG) is a standard CBG, this one here (points to another CBG) has the blue note fretting system that emulates the sound of pre-1930's blues guitar sound"

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jonno on September 22, 2016 at 11:58am

I think this 'hard wiring' a flattened 5th into a cbg is prob not worth worryin bout seeing how you can just tune a middle string down a bit or put your finger one fret lower on the middle D string (assumimg root, 5th, root tunings eg GDG etc) Playing just root with flat 5 power chords is pretty wobbly tritone stuff. Regular frets or tunings supply all needs for left of field notes in my opinion

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by JL on September 22, 2016 at 11:40pm

I might be missing something, but wouldn't a whammy bar give you that occasional 'bent out of tune' note?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 23, 2016 at 3:20am

What I said a coupla days ago...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Fomhorach on September 23, 2016 at 7:53am

It's not about hard wiring a bent note into the fretboard. 

That would be too much of a change.

The idea started off with me thinking about the character of a stinky guitar with the fretboard just 'off' a little bit. Maybe it has a couple of wonky frets perhaps 1mm off because of a dodgy pencil line or a wobbly saw. It's still playable and has a character all of its own. It can sit right into a song and sounds unique. It's got its own tiny imperfections that add to its charm and appeal

Can we recreate this on purpose in a certain way that it becomes a certain type of tuning?

All the theory of microtuning works on a CBG because we are dealing with 2 notes played on 3 strings. We don't need wobbly frets to do this, we just need to figure out which frets to change so that the 2 outside strings (both the same notes) are actually micro tuned to be more perfectly harmonic on purpose because that micro tuning at that point actually produces a flat note in a desired place, just ever so flat enough that you don't really notice but it adds a unique 'character' to the instrument.

It can be something that is unique to 3 stringed instruments because a 4-5-6 stringed instrument can't achieve this effect without throwing all the other strings out of tune at that fret.

We can do it on purpose as a flavour to that build.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 24, 2016 at 6:39pm

Listen to the video on this page, and tell me if he's got the idea you're looking for:

http://www.cigarboxnation.com/forum/topics/follow-up-a-new-apartmen...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Cause the Blue rat on September 25, 2016 at 11:53pm

A whammy bar would give you microtones. But you would have to memorize their tuning to get it right. Just like a western scale a microtonal scale would have to be played in pitch. Slight variances would be out of tune. Just like in a western scale. 

Violins are a middle eastern instrument. Their fretless design gives way to all the microtonal music from that region. As with any fretless instrument you would have to be completely familiar with the tuning to get it right. 

You could double  the frets on a standard western guitar. Have 24 frets in the same space as 12 by starting with the 12th fret as your measurements from the nut. Probably a bit hard to play above the 12th fret. Because your able to tune it like a standard guitar you could play along with everyone. Then toss in the microtones when you want. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 27, 2016 at 7:09am

Again, basically what I said earlier...you don't need to build any frets at all! You need to use your brain. This has been done in numerous cultures with fretless microtonally-played instruments fromChina, Japan, India, Africa and all over the Middle East and Mediterranean.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Fomhorach on September 27, 2016 at 1:37pm

That's OK.

I'm convinced. None of it makes any sense. 

When it comes to microtuning a fretboard we lack the skill, we shouldn't bother anyway, it's not worth the effort, it's been done before, it shouldn't be done because the fretboard is right, we can bend the strings with either our fingers or a whammy bar and it makes no musical sense to look into it.

I will just be strange and experiment with it anyway.

Just because I like to bend rules.

No problem.

:)

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• Next ›
• Page