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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 21, 2016 at 12:46am

Dammit, Tim! Never let facts get in the way of a good story!

But even a sitar sounds slightly out of tune due to that sympathetic jangle.

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on September 21, 2016 at 7:17am

I know. But I got this from an old Guitar World story about the recording session, not the live performance...

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Permalink Reply by Fomhorach on September 19, 2016 at 9:58pm

I've had a sleep on this and a good think.

I've never played a dulcimer but I think I know it's concept.
It misses out frets because notewise these are all the notes needed to play in a particular key. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this just like a piano missing all the black keys?

What if we take a dulcimer then deliberately add the missing frets but make every one say 15% flat? I think flat because we can still bend that note up to its true note.

We should be able to still play everything normal but then choose at any point to hit that stinky note deliberately. We can even play it then slowly bring it up to the note it should be.

A lot of musical theory could go into this one, a bit more than I know. For instance these stinky notes could be based entirely on just intonation or Eastern musical instruments scales.

Hmm.. Food for thought.

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Permalink Reply by Cause the Blue rat on September 19, 2016 at 11:43pm

Perhaps a different but easer approach would be to use very large frets and slightly scallop the fret board. You would loose the feel of the fretboard. But gain the microtones by pressing down harder. Causing the string to go sharp. 

With a lot of planning and experimenting it's possible to get a design that would accommodate this playing style. Play a scalloped fretboard normally and your in tune. Touch the neck and your now playing a microtone  sharper than the original note. 

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Permalink Reply by Titch the Clown on September 20, 2016 at 2:30am

One thing i tried with a two stringer is a 24 inchscale where i had a fret every inch under one side and standard spacing under the other. It was interesting how close they were around 3,4,5 and 8 inches. 

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Permalink Reply by Gilles C. Caron on September 20, 2016 at 4:37am

It would be easier to go fretless. Let your fingers choose the positions.

I must say that my ears don't like micro tones. And it's only when I had a talk with a friend guitarist who traveled a lot that I learned that what I heard as out of tune sometimes was correct in some countries.

I still don't like these notes, but won't comment them as out of tune anymore...

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Permalink Reply by Cause the Blue rat on September 20, 2016 at 10:21am

Farther on the scalloped with large frets. Using the standard eight note scale. By varying your finder pressure to get the microtones between each note you could end up with 26 notes between any octave. 

You could then choose which notes work for the sound your going for. Make them your standard scale. then using this scale you could figure out your minor and so on. This would give you a consistency in sound. Better than just hitting random notes. 

The trick then would be to remember when to play normal and when to press harder to get to the needed microtone. 

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Permalink Reply by Fomhorach on September 20, 2016 at 11:29am

That's a really good idea. 

I've seen scallop fretboard before and even a metal guitar that had no fretboard, just the frets.

What if this idea is mixed with my idea about the dulcimer style with the odd flat notes so that a hard press raises the fat to a normal note. It would be like having the choice of two scales from the one fretboard. 

I'm still thinking that it doesn't have to be so complicated.

We could construct a standard measurement of say a 25" scale and work out a reproducible 'Stinky CBG' fretboard. We know that when we build a guitar and we get a few frets wrong it gives that guitar it's own personality, what if we create a standard 'stinky' personality? Not so bad that it's just unplayable but slightly off in all the right places. 

It's just a wild idea.

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Permalink Reply by Fomhorach on September 20, 2016 at 1:16pm

Slides are fun. I learned my guitar skills playing slide blues years ago.

It's not exactly what I was aiming at.

I think that I will have to study music theory some more and combine it with consonance and dissonance and how this was used by old blues players to create certain styles of play.

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Permalink Reply by Fomhorach on September 20, 2016 at 1:45pm

There is a lot more to this than meets the ear, so to speak.

I found this..

" Blue notes

If the blues scale is a disputed term, the “blue note” is even more so. We must distinguish between blues scale notes (♭3^, ♯4^, and ♭7^) and blue notes (microtonal pitches that lie between the piano keys.) As mentioned above, theorists and practitioners alike frequently and incorrectly refer to ♭3^ and ♭7^ (and sometimes ♯4^) as blue notes. Quite a few theorists use the term “blue notes” both for microtonal and piano-key notes. For example, Turek and McCarthy (2013) define blue notes both as the equal-tempered ♭3^ and ♭7^, and, later, as “pitches, most notably the third and seventh scale degrees, slightly flatter than their equal-tempered counterparts” (593). Stoia (2013) is one of several theorists who describe the “blue third” both as being minor, and as lying between minor and major. These contradictory usages are needlessly confusing. We can avoid confusion by reserving the term “blue note” exclusively for microtonal pitches." - http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2014/blues-tonality

Yup, it's way over my head just now, but I think we can build this into our fretboard. Or something like this. I think I'm on the right track here.
Conceptualising it might take some time, and that's something I don't have a lot of.

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Permalink Reply by Cause the Blue rat on September 20, 2016 at 3:18pm

Great article Fomborach. Read a good portion of it. Got a kick out of classical musicians trying to explain what we do by heart. : ) Bend those strings till that guitar screams! 

To kind of give you and idea of what's meant by  (♭3^, ♯4^, and ♭7^). If you already know the pentatonic blues scale think of these notes as the ones that are most frequently bent. On the G blues scale this would be the third string third fret. Third string fifth fret. And the second string sixth fret in order shone. The bendy notes of the blues scale. So this entire article is classically trained musicians trying to explain those darn bendy notes we all love.  : ) Imagine going threw years of college. To the point where you know the physics between each note. Can explain every cord structure both in physics and math. Just to spend years trying to figure out those darn bendy notes. : ) 

Microtonal. Done right slightly bending a few notes out of tune creates a 'feeling' or personality wile soloing. Or singing. 

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Permalink Reply by Regan on September 21, 2016 at 12:10am

I think a person could accomplish some of these odd notes with a normal fretted cbg by adding partial frets that are reached by bending the strings. The string spacing gives a bit of an option there. I'm thinking if a person used domed nail heads or some sort of tack in strategic spots between strings a person could play normally in key, but also bend the string into the weird zone. Another option would be to have a second bridge that is lever actuated by the picking hand that would throw the intonation out enough to get strange,,,,, hmmm maybe its time to start developing string benders that are cbg friendly,,,,,

Regan

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