Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Slowpaw Steve T on November 5, 2014 at 9:35am

cheers guys! after a couple of months continuously building I was getting tired and making mistakes... I shouldn't complain as I appreciated the sales!  I pushed my prices up 20% and I 've enjoyed a little break and they're starting to roll in again, I try to make each build better and better, they 're still sounding pretty good anyway! :-)

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Permalink Reply by Christopher Lee dixon on November 5, 2014 at 2:21pm

You make fretting a neck look easy...lol...I have only fretted 2 so far....i like your way better. thanks for the tips

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Permalink Reply by The Phrygian Kid on November 1, 2014 at 12:02am

Well in my opinion...

A fretted one is worth AT LEAST DOUBLE.

Why?

Because making a fretted one which plays in tune, sounds pleasing and looks good takes skills and knowledge.

Any idiot can make a fretless one.

Secondly, more importantly, and also completely my opinion:
A fretted one is at least twice as useful and versatile as a musical instrument which will actually empower it's new owner to discover and enjoy music

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Permalink Reply by Slowpaw Steve T on November 1, 2014 at 12:41am

I've sold a lot of fretless guitars to experienced players and beginners alike, they have their own sound but still need the same attention to detail regarding string height and scale length, though yes they can be very forgiving regarding the odd fretboard faults! ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Jim_N on November 1, 2014 at 3:09am

"Any idiot can make a fretless one." -TPK

Indeed. I've proven this to be fact a number of times in my own work.

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Permalink Reply by George Forster on November 1, 2014 at 3:52am

Not to offend anyone, this is only my opinion, and I don't build and sell CBG's as my primary occupation.  I would rather make one unique CBG, than 5 that are all the same....

Pricing is tough to determine with anything hand-made.  You need to decide in which market you wish to compete.  Ebay, Etsy, Craigslist...are all useless, to me. Why? Because, some of people listing on those sites don't value their own time and/or workmanship (or their workmanship is shoddy).  They don't mind selling something for the price of the materials, plus a buck or two.  That's fine, for them, but I choose not to sell in that market.  My time and expertise are too valuable.  I view my "creations" as functional art.  So, in addition to covering materials and time, my price reflects the uniqueness of my offering.  Ultimately,the market in which your competing determines the price.  Ebay, Etsy, Craigslist-a CBG is worth $75 to $ 150 fretted, or not, one-off or production run-it's all the same to the customers, who are browsing from site to site looking for the best deal. Sell in that market, and you've limited your selling price to whatever that market will bear.

 I will put a few gits in a local music store, to sell on consignment, knowing that I'm competing against "real" instruments, and understanding that the owner has no real incentive to sell my instrument, compared to selling an instrument that he has bought outright, to re-sell.  Still, I figure that when the right person can actually see, touch, and, most importantly, play the instrument, I might get a sale, at a price that's acceptable to me. Plus, I like that I'm exposing people to an instrument they may have never even heard of.

My preferred way to sell is through self-generated referrals.  It's a slower process, but I find much more rewarding.  Go to open jams.  Talk to everyone I meet, about CGBs. I'll take samples to the bar.  Let people play them.  Generate interest.  Then, I might get a commission build.  That's how I prefer to sell my CBGs.

To answer your question-to me a fretted guitar is easily worth twice what an un-fretted one is worth, because of the work and precision involved.  Additionally, it's easier to sell to someone who plays a regular guitar. 

As for what to charge friends for anything, not just guitars...good luck,. You're on your own:)

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Permalink Reply by Bluesheart on November 1, 2014 at 7:08am

Now that I think about it more, I agree with The Kid too, cause it is not just the frets and time to install them,it makes the whole build much more demanding and a higher degree of precision is needed to produce an instrument with decent string action and good intonation. So double the price for a fretted model, whatever your prices are. My minimum for a fairly basic fretted 3 string with a piezo would be about $300. If you are looking to make money, you are likely in the wrong business. I think the only real way to make any profit, and prob. not much either, would be in mass production but to me that would take all the fun out of it.

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Permalink Reply by John Sawyer on November 1, 2014 at 9:26am

Well said.  There are a lot of variables in here:  Neck material, tuner quality, etc.  without any special woods, I figure I'm $40 into a build, fretted.   If you start adding Ebony fretboards, crafted bridges, etc., your material costs jump.  Don't forget waste, Even the local Home Depot sells maple, but I always end up with cut offs.

The real key here is valuing your time and expertise.  Unskilled vs. skilled labor.  If you're making $5/hour plus materials, is it really worth it?   For me, most of my builds are a labor of love, and are for friends and extended friends.  When we start talking Orders for people I don't know, there's a warranty and reputation component.  I wouldn't sell a fretted one for less than $150, even if my material costs are a third that.  Even at $150, I'm paying myself less than $20/hr.  

Would you take a JOB for $20 an hour, but only work 5 hours a day?  Ok, that may be an exxageration as you can get efficient with your time...  Just keep in mind that your time is valuable, and if you SELL one, be prepared to service it for free for an agreed to period of time. . . .

For me, I sell it to friends for just enough money to buy the next tool, or at least a down payment... :-)

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Permalink Reply by JL on November 5, 2014 at 7:06am

step #1, 100% markup on parts to cover waste & scrap, tools & maintenance, disposal, replenishment, storage, electricity, band-aids, gauze, sutures, antibiotics, limb reattachment surgery, etc.

step #2, charge for your time as if you contracted each step from a craftsman/apprentice/laborer, $20/hour for the real skilled bits like hand carving and fret layout, $10/hour for the not skilled but tedious arm-aching bits like sanding & filing, $5/hour for the fun stuff using big power tools that do the work for you, $1/hour for the standing and staring at it thinking about what do do next.

This gives you a starting price for haggling...

step #3: look yourself in the mirror and remember to not take it too seriously. It is for fun.  If you wanted to make instruments for a living you would not be here reading my rambling insanities...

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Permalink Reply by Ron "Oily" Sprague on November 5, 2014 at 8:08am

Parts is the easy part. Whatever they cost you, plus postage, plus 10%. Next is if you use power tools: you can figure the cost of lights, electricity, heating, etc. Basically, pass along the cost of anything you purchase, plus 10% The hard part is valuing your time. Unless you have about 50 or so builds to your credit, you can't really consider yourself a journeyman luthier, unless you are gifted with superior woodworking or other skills. But your time is still valuable, so I personally would suggest $20-25 per hour. If it costs you $30 for parts, another 10 for materials, and you use power tools, then $50 for parts seems right, unless using specialty woods. If it takes you 5 hours to build, then $100-125 for labor. You very quickly see where this is going....

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Permalink Reply by BUGGY (C) on November 6, 2014 at 3:07am

Do a cost sheet

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Permalink Reply by Jim_N on November 6, 2014 at 8:17am

Yup, cost sheet. My point exactly.
Well, let’s see… a few, basic, oh, let’s call ‘em, “minor expenses”… such as the cost of the box, neck, fingerboard, tuners, strings, nut, bridge, pickup, pots, jack, stain/sealant, frets, fret dots, tailpiece, misc. paraphernalia: sound hole covers, grommets, metal corners; assorted hardware: rivets/ferrules, screws, etc.; shop supplies such as wood glue, superglue(?), sandpaper, sanding belts, etc, etc. (Don't even think about fancy items such as resos, reso covers, etc., or the price of quality components at this point.)

 How 'bout the cost of tools and equipment? Sure, some people may be doing just fine whittlin' out cbgs with only Grandpa’s old folding knife, but realistically, you’re looking at spending 100’s of dollars at a minimum… and that’s not even scratching the surface of the cost of specialized woodworking tools/equipment.
Now throw in one’s time/gas/etc., for just one trip to anyplace for supplies. One’s labor: the Number of Hours to build the thing (including prep work, clean up, etc., etc.); the time to take photos, write and post eBAY ad, etc… Oh, and have you prepared your package for shipment complete with appropriate size box, bubble wrap, tape, etc., yet? Driven to and then waited in a line for who-knows-how-long at the post office?

.
Bottom line? If you can do all this and sell a cbg for a profit at a sale price of under $100… haha, well... ok. ; )

NOTE: This thread is about COSTS/PRICING cigar box guitars FOR SALE. I'm not addressing those who make cbgs for the fun of it, gifts, self-expression, target practice, therapy, to educate the masses, or because you just want an instrument “you made yourself,” etc., etc., etc.

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